Cultural Backgrounds: how much can they be customized?

[Michebugio]

At page 33, the Adventurer’s Book says: “Hobby veterans, Middle-earth scholars or simply players who are feeling creative right away may roll or choose their background to obtain their characters’ values and Traits, and then should use the given descriptions only as starting points to customize, or inspiration for inventing their own.”

Now, I’ve got one player that feels restrained by those backgrounds. No problem, I said, just choose one to determine Attribute values and Traits and then invent your own story.

But being a bit too choosy, he’s still not satisfied. He said “well, why can’t we simply choose one of those six Attribute values combinations, then choose a Favored Skill and 2 Traits from the general list on our own, rather than being limited to the Favored Skill and to the Trait list of each background?”

Well, I couldn’t answer to that. I wonder if it is implied that a background is completely customizable (included Traits and Favored Skill), and those described are just there to make things a bit more “railroady” to new players; or if a matter of game balance is involved, so those combinations of Traits and Favored Skills from background were made with a purpose.

For now, to be sure, I said to my player to stick to the backgrounds described, and maybe we’ll talk customization later.

What are your thoughts on this issue?

[Hermes Serpent]

You got a really special snowflake there. Sorry that you're caught between a rock and a hard place with that player. You could throw him/her under a bus and wait for the next one, they come along every few minutes.

Maybe they should sit out this session as the game obviously is too restrictive for their play style.

[Michebugio]

You got a really special snowflake there. Sorry that you're caught between a rock and a hard place with that player. You could throw him/her under a bus and wait for the next one, they come along every few minutes.

Maybe they should sit out this session as the game obviously is too restrictive for their play style.

While I agree on your point, it's also a very hard line. I'm facing a need for new players, since two of my fellows had to quit the game because of relocation, and now I have 2 left. This new one seems very motivated, but he's a bit of an ass regarding character customization and I'm not the kind of Gamemaster who always says "no" if I can find an in-between solution (by the way, I'm also not the kind of Gamemaster who always says "yes").

Also, I wouldn't be too concerned granting to a character the Trait "Tall" (for example) if it's not in his background list, at least theoretically. But what I'm really asking here is: do you think there is any particular reason for pre-made Trait lists (and background Favored Skill), other than simply giving examples to the players? Or am I missing particular combinations deemed too effective, or too strange, or too whatever by the developers?

[Hermes Serpent]

I suspect that he'll min-max (and I'll not enter the discussion with a definition of that term) the character and any custom Traits will be designed to get an advantage.

What's the new player's background? If it's solely D&D of whatever stripe then he may have viewed TOR through a set of blood-stained rather than rose-tinted spectacles and see Traits as Feats and a way to make his character an uber-mean killing machine.

Tell him to make a Background that he feels meets his requirement for being a special snowflake and then come back here for a critical review of said background. The folks here will tell you like it is.

My bias against catering to special snowflakes aside the Traits system doesn't really limit a character except in gaining AP's. I've found that in an adventure of any length 12 is the maximum number of AP's many heroes are going to see as getting that third check box filled is much harder than the first two. Twelve AP's allows one skill to go from 2 ranks to three, hardly a game changer.

[Rich H]

I think this kind of thing should really be dealt with on a case by case basis with some common sense applied.

The RAW uses traits, favoured skills, etc to support the distinctive elements of each culture and add flavour to the setting through those rules and choices. This is nothing new in gaming - eg, Pendragon has an even tighter set of character generation rules and it's all the better for it. If you deviate too far from that then I'd question why bother engaging with a system and game that obviously doesn't support your style of play and that of your group.

Personally, if a player wanted to customise a character I'd look at what they wanted to do, and more importantly, why they wanted to do it. A slight alteration to a skill rating or a trait that isn't on the list (but still logically appropriate given any reasoning) is okay whereas I'd be more suspicious of wholesale changes.

Perhaps it would help if the OP explained in more detail what the player wanted to do/alter and why and then our advice would be more focussed and applicable.

[Rocmistro]

Michebugio:

I'd allow it, with the following caveats:

-Have him first write his character background. That will be the guiding path the two of you use to customize his character. If his character background never makes mention of water, and he tells you he wants the boating speciality, I would tell him "no" on that item.

-No Body/Heart/Wits score can go above or below the maximum/minimum ranges presented in the 6 backgrounds that are available. A Beorning, for example, can never have a wits higher than 4, or a body score lower than 5.

-Common Skills. This is really where you have to watch him. And in fact, in my opinion, this is the thin line. If he asks to have a different distribution of the starting common skills, i would take that as a red flag, and probably seriously consider not allowing him in your group. These are pretty carefully balanced so as to prevent min-maxing, and I (as a player) could build a horrible character (meaning: powergamed), if I had free reign to re-distribute the starting common skills.

-Weapon Skills. As long as he respects the basic paradigm (Weapon Group) 2 or Weapon 2 + Other 1 + Dagger 1, I think you're ok. However, I would also look at it with respect to the cultural rewards for a given group. If you suspect he is stacking for specialization for a specific weapon, I would say no.

[Stormcrow]

As others have suggested, the key here is to require the player to lay out the character's background FIRST. I suggest the following: after he gives you the background, you tell him what his basic attributes, favored skills, and distinctive features will be. You can give him a choice of distinctive features if you like. The point is to prevent the player from cherry-picking his favorite bits without tying them to a background.

On the other hand, if he unabashedly tells you what stats he wants without giving you a background, you should feel free to impose a background on his character, and then require that he play it.

In the end, as long as the stats support the background and vice-versa, everything is all right.

[Michebugio]

Premise: I’m reading a lot of prejudice against this player. Yes, he’s a choosy ass: but he’s definitely NOT a power player, if that is your concern. On the contrary, he has a lot of pretty good ideas.

Ok, let's get into detail then.

He's a Man of the Lake, and the background he had in mind was something like this:

A crafty hunter, born and raised in a farm near the Stairs of Girion, on the Lake banks south from Esgaroth. His father patrolled the Long Lake shores, sometimes venturing in the Long Marshes, until he died, dragged in the waters by a bog hag. The character inherited his father’s boat, his great bow and ultimately his job. As a talented archer, he also joined the Corporation, but somehow remained a lone wolf within their ranks. Now, he’s a gruff lonely man who lives on his wits and sometimes acts as a guide for the travelers who intend to cross or circumvent the Long Lake.

Now, none of the backgrounds of the Men of the Lake seem to fit this idea. It has some close affinity with the Barding’s background Patient Hunter, though: but he doesn’t like the idea very much, as he sees himself as born and raised on the Lake, not in Dale. As a Man of the Lake in his very bones, he even has a sort of grudge against the Dalish people, whom he sees as petty aristocrats who don’t consider the Esgarothians as their equals.

So, the Barding path is out of discussion. And none of the cultural backgrounds of the Men of the Lake seem to even get close to his idea.

So, in the end, I was thinking to give him the stats of a Patient Hunter (5/5/4, Hunting), but to let him use the starting Skills of the Men of the Lake, and also their Cultural Rewards and Virtues (otherwise, he can’t be an Archer of the Corporation). And to let him choose the Traits Clever and Keen Eye.

Would you allow it?

[Rich H]

... Also, having the player explain why he wants to make these changes/customisations and provide a background will really test whether he has a cool idea that can add value to the campaign or he's just doing it to min-max or because he's a special snowflake. I've played in gaming groups for other RPGs where I've asked for explanations and backgrounds for such changes and many a player has quickly changed their mind and reverted to the options already in the rulebook; a strong suggestion that they wanted to simply manipulate the system or weren't at all committed to their 'great idea'.

[Michebugio]

Read above, Rich