Northman Barrows and other such places

[Hermes Serpent]

Thanks Lathspell, that's something I hadn't considered mostly because my players rarely use Intimidate Foe. It very much puts DotD back in the frame hmmmm.

[Rich H]

Note that the Wood-wight also doesn't have any favored skills that would benefit from the attribute boost.

That was an error. It should have Favoured Skills:

Wood-wights should have Perception and Strangling Claws as Favoured skills. It was an oversight in The Heart of the Wild that creeped into The Darkening of Mirkwood pdf, but that has been fixed in the files sent to the printer.

Francesco

From this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1111

[Yusei]

I don't like the Craven mechanism mostly because the Intimidate Combat Action is so poorly defined (is it 1, 2 or 3 points vs. the whole enemy force or 1, 2 or 3 vs. one target? it's never been properly clarified but much discussed).

Since the rules say explicitly that the TN is based upon the highest attribute in the enemy force, and that the Loremaster decides how the hate loss is split between opponents, it seems clear that you don't choose a target.

[Hermes Serpent]

You aren't getting my drift. I roll Awe and get a normal success which is One point of Hate removed. Is that one per creature, one from the creature with the Highest attribute (which determined the TN), or one from each creature in the group of adversaries. It just isn't clear merely implied by analogy with other actions - Rally Comrades gives one Endurance back to everyone (specifically including the hero making the test) injured in the current combat. So I could say it's one Hate point from every enemy based on that and the use of opponents plural in the 2nd paragraph RH column of p162. However the LM can assign the loss as he sees fit in the final paragraph of the section so could assign all the Hate loss to a single enemy. In that section enemy could be singular or plural which is no help.

It isn't logical to only force the loss of a single Hate point for a successful use of Awe but neither does it make sense to allow the LM to pile a whole lot of Hate loss on a single enemy. I'm afraid it's another one of those rules that might have made sense to whoever wrote it but isn't clearly written for someone else.

[Yusei]

The way I understand the rule, a normal success against 3 enemies means one of them loses 1 hate point. A great success means two of them lose one point, or one of them loses two points (as the LM sees fit).

I'm not sure how you could understand the rule differently, but English is not my mother tongue and I may be missing some nuances.

[Rich H]

Hermes,

1) Hate point loss is not the same, nor even comparable, to Endurance points gained so comparing Rally Comrades and Intimidate Foe is at best a bit of a distraction. They just don't do the same things.

2) The AB does state:

The Loremaster assigns the Hate point loss in any way he sees fit.

If the Hate Point loss applied to *all* adversaries equally then there'd simply be no need for that line as the same number of Hate points would be lost across all opponents. That line being in the rules means you take the number of points in the result and assign the loss of Hate points as you see fit - eg, in the case of an extraordinary success that could be all 3 to one opponent, 1 to three opponents, or 2 to one opponent and 1 to a second opponent.

Hopefully the revised rules will confirm this for you though.

[Hermes Serpent]

I agree that English is a very nuanced language and a native speaker may read something another person misses. There's also can be a wide variation between British English and American English in how certain phrases can be interpreted.

An example regarding the Awe thing.
I have 5 orc soldiers and 2 goblin archers led by an Orc Chieftain.
The soldiers all have 1 Hate and are craven as are the archers.
The Chieftain has AL5 and Hate 5
LMB p46 defines a Combat Round as the time in which each side takes all it's combat actions (attacks etc.)
So Craven creatures with no Hate at the start of their round run away but the Chieftain has Commanding Voice and can replace lost Hate for all orcs (and I assume goblins count as orcs). This is never going to happen with any of his troops as they lose Hate during the heroes Combat round if a hero uses Intimidate and run before he can give them more Hate.

As the LM I should use all my Chieftain's hate to soak hate loss from Intimidate attacks or spend them on Horrible Strength or Snake-like speed. This only works if the number of hate points lost is total 1, 2 or 3 rather than per enemy Intimidated. However using a whole combat round to force one orc soldier or goblin archer to run is a poor choice when hitting him will often kill him anyway if you have 3 ranks in a weapon skill. Hence my FTF players rarely use Intimidate.

My Orc Chieftain is never going to be leading a party of orcs with less than two Hate or who are Craven, he'll only ever lead an elite force of Orc Guards where he can replace their lost Hate from his Hate pool.

[Hermes Serpent]

Hermes,

1) Hate point loss is not the same, nor even comparable, to Endurance points gained so comparing Rally Comrades and Intimidate Foe is at best a bit of a distraction. They just don't do the same things.

2) The AB does state:

The Loremaster assigns the Hate point loss in any way he sees fit.

If the Hate Point loss applied to *all* adversaries equally then there'd simply be no need for that line as the same number of Hate points would be lost across all opponents. That line being in the rules means you take the number of points in the result and assign the loss of Hate points as you see fit - eg, in the case of an extraordinary success that could be all 3 to one opponent, 1 to three opponents, or 2 to one opponent and 1 to a second opponent.

Hopefully the revised rules will confirm this for you though.

I hope so too Rich.

The use of the rally example was as an analogy to try and illuminate the situation wrt Hate loss rather than any attempt to exactly equate the two.

I can see the concentrated Hate loss as the leader using his powers of persuasion to keep his troops fighting and so he takes the whole loss rather than the rank and file losing heart. So four orcs lose four Hate and he takes the whole loss by beating his chest and reinvigorating the troops (no Hate loss for them) while he realises that the situation is not great for his side (he loses four hate).

[Yusei]

This is never going to happen with any of his troops as they lose Hate during the heroes Combat round if a hero uses Intimidate and run before he can give them more Hate.

During a round, one side acts, then the other side. If the heroes intimidate first, then the commander has time to give it's orcs more hate before the end of the round.

[Hermes Serpent]

Coming from a miniatures gaming background I seem to have made assumptions concerning terms that do not appear to be correct. I stand corrected about the effectiveness of the Orc Chieftain and his minions.