Crafting in Fellowship Phases

[Ferretz]

So, an idea has been swirling around in my head for some time: what if characters could craft stuff as Fellowship Phases?

The idea for this came from two sources. First, players in my group have been if they can create bigger crafting projects with the craft skill. Second, I'm a long time fan of Lord of the Rings Online, which has an excellent crafting system.

I've already been toying with some concepts. Here are my ideas so far:
1. Crafting should be a Fellowship Undertaking
2. It should use the Crafting skill
3. It should use Specialities, but these should augment Crafting, not limit it (a character with Smith-craft should have an easier time creating swords, for example, but other characters without this Speciality should also be able to do it.
4. Craftable gear should be divided into categories
5. Craftable gear should be divided into tiers

So, how to fit all this together, and still base it on the existing rules (I don't want to create a new rules set, but still keep it skill based).

Some brain storming:

Categories: Weapons and armour are good examples, but all characters should be able to use Crafting, I think. Other things that could be crafted is Food, Pipe-weed, Clothes and even "Maps & Lore". There could be a seperate type of gear that has a small game effect, not as good as a Reward or a Virtue, but still noticeable. Also, there could be Cultural Categories, although I'm not sure if characters would have to select Categories they would excel in or not.

TN & Tiers: Craftable gear could be divided up into Tiers. Each Tier could have it's own TN. Also, characters could increase TN to make more items in one go, or decrease the TN by taking longer time (more than one Fellowship Phase).

Specialities: Some items should have Specialities as requirements. For instance, making a grand Hobbit meal should have Cooking. Making Pipe-weed should have Smoking and/or Herb-lore. Characters could even craft Lembas with Elven-lore. Smith-craft and Elven-lore could create some interesting blades (but that wouldn't happen, as no Elven characters so far in the game can begin with Smith-craft, if I remember correctly). Working together, several characters could even pool their Specialities into one project, maybe?
Also, where the character crafts would count. A dwarf crafting would be more effective if he used the smithies of Erebor than not.

The goal for the whole thing is to bring crafting, which is such an important thing in Tolkien's books (from making Hobbit-food for the road in preparation for a journey, to smithing excellent elven long swords and spears).

Also, Crafting could be used to make money. Maybe a character could spend a Fellowship Phase crafting, and instead of getting one or more items, he would get one Treasure Point per Skill in Crafting he has. This would represent the character crafting items to sell.

So, there it is. Creative and constructive suggestions would be most welcome. Just remember that craftable gear should give some effect (remember that players are using a Fellowship Phase on it), but it should not be better than a Reward or Virtue.

-Eirik

[Otaku-sempai]

Might a character also use Craft to create a song, compose a ballad or even write a book? The Song skill might work for the first, but doesn't seem adequate for the creation of poetry or prose.

[Rich H]

There are some rules in the Laketown supplement that cover mundane items and how they supplement common skill usage. Compared to them how do you see these Crafting rules and their mechanical impact?

[Ferretz]

Yes, using this for music and poetry is also a good idea. I think Song would be a better Skill for this, though, but a piece of music or poetry could easily be put into the same system of Tiers.

One alternative is to dispense with the rolls for Crafting, but let each Tier require one level in the skill being used. Here, Specialities could let you craft at one Tier higher, or create more items. So a Dwarf of Erebor with Craft 3 and Smith-craft, could craft an of metalwork at Tier 4, two items at Tier 3, three items at Tier 2 and so on. Specialities could also stack, so a Hobbit with Herb-lore and Smoking could create Pipe-weed at two Tiers higher than his Craft.

As for the items in the Lake-town booklet, these would be basically at the same level. Only here you are rewarded for Skill and Specialities instead of Treasure Points. Also, you could craft regular arms and armour.

-E.

[Ferretz]

Ok, so here's an example of how it could look:

Pipe-weed:

Rule: For each Tier of Pipe-weed a character carries with him on an Adventure Phase, he'll can add a single +2 bonus to any Fear, Corruption or Fatigue check. This bonus can not be stacked, and can be used once per Tier of the Pipe-weed (smoking only gets you so far...)

Tier I: "Southlinch"
Tier II: "Southern Star"
Tier III: "Longbottom Leaf"
Tier IV: "Old Toby"
Tier V: "Dragon's Breath"

Specialities: Smoking, Herb-lore

So, a character carrying a pouch of Old Toby, could add +2 to his Corruption, Fear or Fatigue checks four times in an adventuring phase. After that, he's weed pouch would be empty, and he would go complaining about it for the rest of the adventure.
A character with a lower Tier pipe-weed would carry an equal amount of it. It just takes more to get the same calming effect.

[Rich H]

Rule: For each Tier of Pipe-weed a character carries with him on an Adventure Phase, he'll can add a single +2 bonus to any Fear, Corruption or Fatigue check. This bonus can not be stacked, and can be used once per Tier of the Pipe-weed (smoking only gets you so far...)

I'm not sure I'd allow any of these crafted items to add bonuses to Fear or Corruption checks, I'd just see them as giving advantages to Common Skills. I think the Fatigue Check is fine as that is based on Travel. Or, if a weapon or piece of armour had been crafted then you get that particular basic item.

[doctheweasel]

I don't know about this. Considering that characters can pretty much acquire whatever gear they can carry, it doesn't seem to do much good. For making money, I think that is already rolled into Standard of Living.

There are already Undertakings that require a character to make something (such as removing Shadow). I think that covers most mundane crafting, and the benefits of it.

For special gear (that gives bonuses) I would have it fall in line with the Laketown market Undertaking. A successful roll allows you to make the gear (rather than having to be in Laketown). Perhaps the materials cost 1 less on a great success, and 2 less on an extraordinary.

[Ferretz]

I'm going to play around with it and see where it ends up. I'll post it here, of course, when I have more. But please post suggestions and such.

I see this on the same level as gathering herbs or going to the market pool. I'm all for giving players choice and flexibility.

And of course, the players in my group have been asking for something like this.

E.

[Robin Smallburrow]

Ferretz

I have a number of objections to your idea unless you keep it very low powered. This issue has actually been raised in the old forum and if I recall I raised the same objections there:

1. Rewards are TOR's way of giving PC's better than normal items. If you allow PC's to Craft their own, what is the point of rewards?? Crafting an equivalent item to a reward should be hard, difficult and time consuming!

2. I disagree strongly with you that all characters should be able to craft, for example, swords. Why do you think swords are (and were) so valued in Dark Ages Europe, and also in Middle-earth? Because swordsmithing is a highly specialised skill that requires a PC to purchase it as a new specialty (perhaps with training). I won't even allow my PC dwarf (who has Smithcraft for Axes) to make swords!

3. I understand that your players want to use Craft as a Fellowship undertaking and I am OK with that (as long as they don't have time to do anything else!), provided the players soon understand why it is better to leave crafting to an 'expert', unless they already have the requisite specialty or can be trained

Robin S.

[Ferretz]

Ferretz

I have a number of objections to your idea unless you keep it very low powered. This issue has actually been raised in the old forum and if I recall I raised the same objections there:

1. Rewards are TOR's way of giving PC's better than normal items. If you allow PC's to Craft their own, what is the point of rewards?? Crafting an equivalent item to a reward should be hard, difficult and time consuming!

2. I disagree strongly with you that all characters should be able to craft, for example, swords. Why do you think swords are (and were) so valued in Dark Ages Europe, and also in Middle-earth? Because swordsmithing is a highly specialised skill that requires a PC to purchase it as a new specialty (perhaps with training). I won't even allow my PC dwarf (who has Smithcraft for Axes) to make swords!

3. I understand that your players want to use Craft as a Fellowship undertaking and I am OK with that (as long as they don't have time to do anything else!), provided the players soon understand why it is better to leave crafting to an 'expert', unless they already have the requisite specialty or can be trained

Robin S.

Well, first off, crafting items in this way is for making regular stuff, or maybe stuff with a small bonus. Items made this way are not meant to be nearly as powerful as Rewards.

Let's consider crafting weapons. My idea works around Tiers of items. Higher Tiers require much more skill on the part of a character, but most people with only a basic knowledge in putting stuff together and the right equipment can make a very basic dagger. No need to be a specialist in smithing to do that.

So, every weapon is assigned to a Tier. Swords, are quite high up, while, for example, spears are not. A character would have to have a rank in Craft equal to the Tier for the item he wants to craft. Also, the Tier can be modified. Increase the Tier to make a good quality sword, decrease it to make a poor quality sword (an item with a better quality would perhaps improve a characteristic by a single point). Increase the Tier to make more than a one in a Fellowship Phase and so on.
This is where Specialities come in. A character with Smith-craft would decrease the Tier for stuff that falls under his Speciality, for example. If he has several Specialities that works with the item he wants to craft, they all decrease the Tier. Also, some places on the map can decrease the Tier for certain items. For instance, if you have access to the smithies of Erebor, they are better than the Smithies of Dale and so on. The bonuses for places are tied to Speciality, though. To decrease the Tier for smith-work by working in Erebor, you need Smith-craft and so on.

Also, many items have a Tier that is so high that you need a high Craft skill AND correct Specialities. A Long Sword is an example of this. It's maybe Tier 6, meaning that a character would need Craft 6 to craft one over a Fellowship Phase. If he had Smith-craft, he would need Craft 5, 6 if he intends to make one of Good quality. If he had Smith-craft and access to the forges and smithies of Erebor, he would still need 4 in the Craft skill to make a regular Long Sword. Remember, access to the forges of Erebor only lowers the Tier when you also have Smith-craft.

As you see, making swords require exceptional skill. But there are lower Tier items too. A dagger would be Tier 2, which means that someone with Craft 2 can make one, and a person with Craft 1 could make one of Poor Quality. A tier cannot be below 1, of course, but a character could increase the Tier to make several daggers in one Fellowship Phase. If a master smith (Craft 5, Smith-craft, access to Erebor) needed to mass produce poor daggers, for some reason, he could make 7 such daggers in one Fellowship Phase (Poor Dagger is Tier 1).

But why make up rules for this in the first place when characters can only go and buy stuff with their Standard of Living? Well, it's a style thing more than anything else, really. Players like to have characters with items they crafted themselves. It's mostly a roleplaying thing, which is something I encourage very much in my campaign.

Also, there is Crafting for profit. This is just another form of Crafting, but instead of making a specific item, you make money. One Treasure Point per Tier, and if the character has Trading, it increases the Tier by one. So a character with Craft 3 and Trading, could earn 4 TP in a Fellowship Phase. Again, some places increase this by one. If the character had set up shop in Lake-Town, he would increase this by one.

-E.