[TofW] Question about the creature of the well

[Woodclaw]

Today wasn't a good day for me. After almost a month I was able to go back at the gaming table with my TOR group and I managed to have a little argument with one of my players.

What happened is that I used the creature from "Don't Leave the Path" with a couple of modifications. Out of four players three -- elf, dwarf and beorning -- failed the Wisdom roll (but with no "eye") against the spell and so they were driven toward the well. I tried to make each lure personalized to the shadow weakness of each character. The elf player argued that since they were driven by so disparate temptations toward the well should have tipped them off.
Now, all the players spoke out loud about what they were experiencing, but they were also under a dreadful spell, so I don't know what to think. Was it metagame or not?

[Heilemann]

Totally meta-gaming.

[Hermes Serpent]

Using something similar, the bit in Rich's Eagles Eyrie scenario, I described how each member of my company who had failed were lured in and my players didn't even try such a move realising that the story was the thing. One even thought that a certain person of ancient lineage might come along and help them.

[Glorelendil]

I don't think it's complete meta-gaming for the characters to speak out loud about what they are thinking, or for the players to ask, "Hey, isn't there a chance I notice how odd it is that we all are attracted to that well, for different reasons?"

Have them each roll Wisdom against a high TN. On a success they resist. With extra successes they can help others.

[Heilemann]

While I think that's on way to resolve it, I have a hard time visualizing the scenario in which they've fallen under the spell, and each of them is seeing these visions, whatever they may be, and as they're walking towards the well, under this dark spell mind you, they... telling everyone else what they're thinking, feeling and seeing? Eh... It depends on how it was played out at the table of course, but at mine I wouldn't allow them much beyond some vague mumbling, and I certainly wouldn't allow them to Sherlock Holmes their way out of it while their character is under a dark spell!

[poosticks7]

But if they are all under the spell then they wouldn't notice would they? I don't think they would.

[Hermes Serpent]

The sequence is test Corruption, feel down-hearted, if half the company fail the test stop and rest, those sleeping have dreams and if not stopping have weird intuitions.
So everyone is getting mental instructions from the trees around them and start getting thoughts about their Shadow-weakness. Anyone going Mad runs towards the well.
Everyone who failed the Corruption test sees the well as containing things relevant to their Shadow-weakness.

Now obviously it's up to the LM to decide if the various companions can communicate with each other about what they are thinking or seeing in visions etc., but telling another companion that the well contains gold while they see their mortal enemy might tip off the company enough for a test, but it's going to be up to the LM on how tough he wants to run it. In the TfW scenario one character is definitely going to run towards the well regardless.

[Corvo]

@Woodclaw.
IMO the thing in the well already planted false thoughts in their mind, probably* it's too late to rationalize.

I was writing a long, verbose explanation, but let me make a brutal comparison: peoples who are drugged with some of the infamous rape-drugs may realize their own behavior is weird and unusual, but they simply don't care.


*probably as "good roleplay and great thinking and I can concede an extra Wisdom roll, at an higher TN"

[Woodclaw]

The sequence is test Corruption, feel down-hearted, if half the company fail the test stop and rest, those sleeping have dreams and if not stopping have weird intuitions.
So everyone is getting mental instructions from the trees around them and start getting thoughts about their Shadow-weakness. Anyone going Mad runs towards the well.
Everyone who failed the Corruption test sees the well as containing things relevant to their Shadow-weakness.

Now obviously it's up to the LM to decide if the various companions can communicate with each other about what they are thinking or seeing in visions etc., but telling another companion that the well contains gold while they see their mortal enemy might tip off the company enough for a test, but it's going to be up to the LM on how tough he wants to run it. In the TfW scenario one character is definitely going to run towards the well regardless.

My sequence was a bit different, since I used the creature, but I'm not playing TfW.
In my game the Corruption tests were rolled and I gave to the PCs who failed a strong compulsion to move toward the well. The dwarf (treasure hunter) remembered about a lost treasure nearby, the beorning (warden) had a gut feeling that the evil they were hunting was near, the elf (wanderer) had vague memories about the place even if he had never been there before. Unfortunatly the lone hobbit who passed the test had little chance to detain them. I have to say that I didn't told them that they were under a spell until I snapped and that I actually rolled their corruption test myself behind the screen.
The point of the elf player was that it was too weird for all of them to feel lured that way for completly different reasons. On one hand I think this was too metagamey (I called him out on this and that started the argument and ruined the play), on the other I can see his reasoning.

[Rich H]

The point of the elf player was that it was too weird for all of them to feel lured that way for completly different reasons.

It's a magical affect that changes depending on the person's own motivations and desires. That's hardly a strange ground breaking idea in a fantasy game.

When I used it, like others, the characters were effectively spell bound (thus they interpreted the spell in different ways which is way it varies for each person). They couldn't vocalise or discuss their interpretations or experiences as my understanding was that they were effectively drugged, in a trance, hypnotised; whatever you want to go with. My players immediately understood what had happened to their characters and role-played according to how they were, or were not affected; those that failed would eagerly seek out the source of their desire resisting anyone that tried to restrain them and they wouldn't engage in discussions or debates as they were solely focussed on reaching their destination and reward.