Fate and Free Will

[zedturtle]

If in doubt... Ninja attack!

"Umm.... Okay, Easterlings wearing black cloaks and face scarves burst through the walls. They wield strange single edged swords.... What do you mean not appropriate? Rich told me to it!"

[Robin Smallburrow]

Zedturtle

The best advice I can give you or any LM caught on this situation is to "go with the flow" - accept the unexpected change of direction your players have taken and then ask yourself:

What happens now? How do I get the PCs back to the plot, or do I need to? How will the bad guys react?

A recent example from my campaign: the PCs discovered that the Prince being held in Lord Arkhads tower was an impostor, actually a shadow creature known as a Dindair! The creature (still disguised as the Prince) escaped and made it look like the PCs were responsible. Instead of pursuing the false prince ( as per the plot),the players decided to make a run for it - they went back to the Ambassador and demanded a fast ship so they could 'lie low for a bit!

I accepted this change of direction and then asked myself the questions above, my solution was to have the Ambassador have to come down in the night bringing horses to the PCs hideout so they could continue the pursuit next day

Robin S

[Rich H]

So I'm struggling with the next part of the essay, which is all about how to be flexible when the players do something unexpected but make the story being told be the story worth telling about. Any other advice anyone has for how to handle things not working out as expected would be very helpful...

Thanks!

Do you mean deviations from canon or just the general (and regular) occurrence of players deviating from the plot? The answers provided may well be different to each of these. The former is going to be dependant on personal gaming group's and how much of a priority maintaining canon is, the latter is more like standard GM advice that should be applied to any RPG.

PS: And adding ninja make any game better.

[Glorelendil]

PS: And adding ninja make any game better.

And pirates.

[Rich H]

PS: And adding ninja make any game better.

And pirates.

... Ninja Pirates.

[Glorelendil]

PS: And adding ninja make any game better.

And pirates.

... Ninja Pirates.

Dual-wielding rules coming in Rivendell. Or so I hear.

[zedturtle]

So I'm struggling with the next part of the essay, which is all about how to be flexible when the players do something unexpected but make the story being told be the story worth telling about. Any other advice anyone has for how to handle things not working out as expected would be very helpful...

Thanks!

Do you mean deviations from canon or just the general (and regular) occurrence of players deviating from the plot? The answers provided may well be different to each of these. The former is going to be dependant on personal gaming group's and how much of a priority maintaining canon is, the latter is more like standard GM advice that should be applied to any RPG.

PS: And adding ninja make any game better.

The first more than the second; I'm really happy with my last post somewhere else that says "Eru helps them along because they made the right choices not because they are inherently special." I want to get at ways to make that feeling happen in the game.

[Falenthal]

Dual-wielding rules coming in Rivendell. Or so I hear.

Oh, no. It was in Ruins of the North. 17h of September, remember?

[zedturtle]

Arise from the dead!

...How shall a man judge what to do in such a time?'

'As he ever has judged,' said Aragorn. 'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are the one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'

- - - - - - -

But Túrin abode long among the outlaws, and became their captain; and he named himself Neithan, the Wronged.

I've been preoccupied of late with questions of morality, of right and wrong, good and evil.

Okay, Daredevil quotes aside, I have really been thinking about this... the events of 2948 for Darkening are relevant for this, and also the in-progress playtest of the next segment of The Beornsvager Saga (tentatively titled Dead of Winter, but I think that might change).

I'm also going to try to stay a little distance away from Evil Men in this part of the thread, although I suppose if the essay is ever finished it will have to go there. So, the question becomes what level of morally grey behaviour is acceptable in a TOR game?

- - - - - - -

(to be filled in later)

[Blubbo Baggins]

Great topic for an essay Zed. I personally like the theological question to which you referred that is at the heart of the "problem" that you are addressing: God's Sovereignty and Human Free Will.

If a Loremaster addresses this as Tolkien did, then there is nothing wrong with having players make their own decisions and choices while having an idea for the overall shape of the story and conclusion (or possible conclusions of course). I don't believe players (in general) want to decide what the story or larger picture is about. If the story is all about them (only - pure sandbox) then they are in a very small world that doesn't sweep them off into Faerie. If the borders of the story/game are determined by their choices only, unless you have very unusual players who have a story in mind (and are coordinating with one another to these ends), the narrative they choose will not be bigger than themselves. The story will begin and end with them.

On the other hand, if the players are caught in a sweeping narrative, then they can still make meaningful choices and yet be in something much bigger, and get lost in the wider world.

Part of Faerie stories is finding oneself in a world that one does not know, a world that is mysterious, where houses are made of candy, pumpkins are turned into carriages, mermaids walk on land, and where an innocent boy finds himself inheriting an artifact from the hand of Darkness itself. Players (at least, I speak for myself!) don't just want to be given missions, complete them, and get rewarded. They want to be caught up in a grander story that has more going on than the lives of the characters. And yet, there is a part of the world where the characters are, whose choices strongly impact and change the nature or history of the world (or fill in details thereof).

Perhaps there is your answer for what to do when players "go off script." Think like Eru, and see the whole story as a book. You can't go back in time unfortunately, but think of the player's choices from a very wide angle and insert what you will (NPCs, Events, Consequences) as an LM to shape the overall story-arch that you have created. And I think, if players do have an idea of how they hope the story will go and voice this, certainly incorporate it into your vision. Personally, I think of RPGs as a game - chance and failure are very, very important. Otherwise you are just telling a story. But the game part is what happens due to the character's presence/choices in their part of the story. The story part is beyond the players and may only be somewhat affected by them. In a way, Middle Earth provides the ideal setting for running games where this is possible.


(Note: I wrote this as a response, not as an essay, so there may be some ideas that don't work, undeveloped or contradictory ideas, etc)