Rivendell Preview 1: What's in it?

[Beran]

Really looking forward to this.

[Rocmistro]

Personally I prefer the "unlock" mechanism; once you reach a certain number of XP or whatever you can swap out your old character for a new one who starts at a reduced XP value.

So, I'm new to TOR and want to play a high elf... LM: Sorry, you need to play a different character, amass 50 XP with it, and then you can have an elf; but with reduced XP. Hmmm, no, that sounds like a really poor way of dealing with this 'issue' from both a player perspective (I don't get to play the character I want, when I want) and GM perspective (I have to accommodate a character into the group and then have his player create another later on). This kind of solution feels very cumbersome and likely still wouldn't solve the initial issue of PCs of differing power levels anyway and would also add additional issues to the gaming table.

Well, I think that's a heavy handed interpretation, Rich, and I do realize the logistical problems, but essentially, yes.

Let me try to explain my sentiment a different way: I challenge anyone who frequents these boards to honestly tell me that they would have no issue with a brand new person to TOR, who has no deep or particular fondness for Tolkien coming into a group and saying "I want to play a High Elf!" a person who has no knowledge of TOR, who in fact doesn't even know what "High Elf" means in the context of Tolkien's world, who has never read the Silmarillion, etc. Do you really believe that entrusting him/her with such a character would not threaten the game?

Does anyone not see the profound difference between a party consisting of, say, 2 Rangers and 2 "High Elves" vs. a party from traditional wilderland?

So, my concern is how they are going to make that work. Let me be clear: I'm not doomsaying, here, guys. I'm excited for it AND I'm concerned with how they are going to make it work.

[Glorelendil]

While I appreciate the sentiment about the High Elf, I don't think it's any more of a problem than, say, somebody who wants to play a Hobbit as a greedy, conniving, kleptomaniac assassin. (Dual wielding, of course.)

So I have to join the "anti-minimum XP" brigade, but I think it can be done more politely than just calling it a horrible idea and then not offering an explanation.

[Stormcrow]

When does it come out?

(Just kidding.)

[Rocmistro]

While I appreciate the sentiment about the High Elf, I don't think it's any more of a problem than, say, somebody who wants to play a Hobbit as a greedy, conniving, kleptomaniac assassin. (Dual wielding, of course.)

So I have to join the "anti-minimum XP" brigade, but I think it can be done more politely than just calling it a horrible idea and then not offering an explanation.

Agreed, EC, but I don't think either the meta or the setting really attracts a person to play something that...screwed up.

With the case of High Elves (I love this term, by the way), both the meta* and the setting will support and attract such a character.

*or at least, that's where my presumption and concern is; that the meta will enable shield-surfing Lego's, and more importantly, the players that want to actually play that.

[Rich H]

Let me try to explain my sentiment a different way: I challenge anyone who frequents these boards to honestly tell me that they would have no issue with a brand new person to TOR, who has no deep or particular fondness for Tolkien coming into a group and saying "I want to play a High Elf!" a person who has no knowledge of TOR, who in fact doesn't even know what "High Elf" means in the context of Tolkien's world, who has never read the Silmarillion, etc. Do you really believe that entrusting him/her with such a character would not threaten the game?

Adding a rule to the RAW as you suggest is limiting and would cause issues. Additionally, we all know how actual official rules are seen through a different lens than house-rulings so making such a rule official would get the game ripped apart by the RPing community at large. Far better for you to just apply such a rule to your 'gaming table'. Let me know how it goes down - I can tell you now by PM what I'd say to you if you put it in front of me.

I'd be far more comfortable with the RAW allowing such characters and then using rules within the game to support how such characters have to deal with different challenges etc that come with playing such a character than a rule that simply closes off a choice of character to all purely based upon the motivation of it that comes from heading off with a subset of 'problem' players. If RPG rules were written to simply deal with the risks posed to a game by the "lowest common denominator" of player then we may as well quit and go home.

I pretty much trust that the mechanics of the game will add elements similar to what some of us have talked about upthread - eg, Cloaked/Uncloaked, how such character impact on the Eye of Sauron rules, and others. These will open up these character types/cultures as options but will bring a very different set of problems and in-game challenges. I find those kind of things far more interesting than your suggestion which if read a certain way, and taking your motivation for suggesting it, is pretty insulting. Not saying that's at all what you're trying to do but I can understand Aramis' impolite response even if I think he should have been more polite and provided more of a reason.

[Rich H]

When does it come out?

(Just kidding.)

A few weeks for preorder. 'Few' in British parlance is anything from 3 to 5 weeks.

[Stormcrow]

Yes, yes, I was just kidding, as I said. I was anticipating this question being asked repeated even though we know the answer.

[Rich H]

Yes, yes, I was just kidding, as I said. I was anticipating this question being asked repeated even though we know the answer.

I know, I was just clarifying what a few meant as (a) it helps and (b) these terms can mean different things to different countries and people.

[Glorelendil]

In general I think TOR is a game that requires players & LM to "buy in" to the playstyle and theme, rather than enforcing it through restrictions. Ideally the player and the LM will work together on a character concept. If that breaks down, and either side starts rules-lawyering, I think they're playing the wrong game.