Problems with: - Those who - Tarry no Longer

[Rich H]

Okay, it's a little ahead of when I need to iron things out but I'll do so over the next couple of days and post here what my approach is going to be.

[Khamul]

Thanks mate!

[bluejay]

Ok so I'll say it. My group loved this adventure. I can't deny I was worried about the sense of railroading and forced loss but they just responded perfectly.

BIG SPOILERS AHEAD

In the fight against the orcs, firstly they realised they wereoutnumbered. They shouted that they will give the Elf Queen to the Orc chieftain only (successful Persuade or Riddle roll). As the chieftain stepped forward they one-shot killed him with their Elf archer. Obviously this angered the orcs but it was a moral victory. They also set trees alight with fire arrows which I tied in to the eagles seeing them. It felt far less of a deus ex machina as a result.

In the battle in the town in the past they performed well against the Easterlings. Again realising they were doomed, the barding stole the armour from a fallen Easterlings and disguised himself pretending the other PCs were his prisoners. Again a small but moral victory.

In the dungeon the elf was told to face the troll alone with a sword and no armour. It mentions that the troll comes out from under a portcullis so the elf wanted to cut the chains holding up the portcullis. Given that he could spend Hope to do this (and a similar manoeuvre is depicted in a later scenario) I thought it was acceptable. So basically the troll dropped like a rancor monster facing a Jedi.

Was I too easy on them? Not sure but as everyone has said this is a tough scenario and they had such a positive attitude in face of extreme adversity that I thought they deserved it. Just thought I'd give a contrasting view as to how my group really enjoyed an extremely challenging adventure and never gave up hope!

[Yusei]

I played the adventure as written... and it went well. I thought it would be too railroady, but my players didn't mind. The dream sequence was interesting in many ways, the only problem I had was that one of the characters managed to escape, was not captured, and never ended up in Dol Guldur. He... tried to rally wild hobbits of the Anduin and raid the fortress, but failed miserably.

I don't want to sound like a Gareth fanboy, but every time I thought something in TfW wouldn't work, it did.

[Stormcrow]

In the fight against the orcs, firstly they realised they wereoutnumbered. They shouted that they will give the Elf Queen to the Orc chieftain only (successful Persuade or Riddle roll). As the chieftain stepped forward they one-shot killed him with their Elf archer. Obviously this angered the orcs but it was a moral victory.

Was it?! Seems like a pretty underhanded trick. Should have garnered some shadow points.

[Glorelendil]

In the fight against the orcs, firstly they realised they wereoutnumbered. They shouted that they will give the Elf Queen to the Orc chieftain only (successful Persuade or Riddle roll). As the chieftain stepped forward they one-shot killed him with their Elf archer. Obviously this angered the orcs but it was a moral victory.

Was it?! Seems like a pretty underhanded trick. Should have garnered some shadow points.

Agreed. Morale victory perhaps; "moral" victory...less so.

[watley]

I have been teaching my players that there is such a thing as a fight that cant be won, and the ways and means about avoiding conflict while still coming up with a positive result. Funnily enough, more like the Tolkien canon than like hack and slash pathfinder or d&d. they struggle with the concept that not all fights can be won through physical might, but that is the failing of modern gaming.

I'm about to start my crew on the Tales series. "Railroading" my group through a series of unwinnable fights will be more of a lesson to them against bloodthirstiness, and the power of mind o'er matter.

[Celebril]

You don't have to railroad the players in this adventure. I like I said in the April thread about this adventure:

I railroaded the Fellowship (that I am the LM for) when they went to rescue Dinodas by not letting them figure out a way to get him free from the chain. The dwarf in the fellowship wasn't happy about that and I didn't blame him. So from that point on I let them figure out ways to get out of the places in the Tales of the Wilderland that railroad you. They never had to be rescued by the Eagles because they used Irime's flash to confuse the enemy just enough to make a run for it on their horses. Then it became a cinematic chase, hide, chase scene where we did opposing rolls to see if they were caught. For the town battle in "Those that tarry no longer" I devised a way that gave them a choice but also made it likely they were captured. They probably could have held the tavern and/or made a run for it. But what I did was have the Alderman give them an ultimatum after they cut down a bunch of undead. Either they surrender or he kills every last man, women and child. TOR is a heroic game where the players are supposed to be heroic. So now the fellowship had a choice they could take all the shadow points that fleeing would incur or surrender. It is still their choice. They chose the heroic option which in the end turned out to be fun for them.

[bluejay]

In the fight against the orcs, firstly they realised they wereoutnumbered. They shouted that they will give the Elf Queen to the Orc chieftain only (successful Persuade or Riddle roll). As the chieftain stepped forward they one-shot killed him with their Elf archer. Obviously this angered the orcs but it was a moral victory.

Was it?! Seems like a pretty underhanded trick. Should have garnered some shadow points.

I meant a moral victory for the players rather than the team. Even if the orcs were going to win they'd taken out their leader.

A for the underhandedness well perhaps It played out less so than it seems from what I wrote above. They were already in deadly combat and the orcs were shouting for them to give the Elf Queen. They shouted back that they would only give her to their leader. One of the orcs boastfully came forward saying he was the leader and so they shot him. It's not as though they were in parley/truce mode and the Orc was unarmed or with weapons sheathed or anything like that.

As for generating shadow points, I'm very careful about that when it comes to orcs and life or death situations. After all Gandalf stabs the goblin king in the dark like some kind of immoral assassin and Gandalf is an angel to all intents and purposes.

[Otaku-sempai]

As for generating shadow points, I'm very careful about that when it comes to orcs and life or death situations. After all Gandalf stabs the goblin king in the dark like some kind of immoral assassin and Gandalf is an angel to all intents and purposes.

Okay. However even in Judeo-Christian theology, angels can often be viewed as God's hitmen. Just look at Gabriel!