A new way to handle Standing (Alternate Rules)

[doctheweasel]

Like some others, I'm not quite happy with the Standing rules as written. They rely on a large amount of treasure to be handed out in play, and many games do not focus on treasure hoards enough to allow for a steady progression. There is a bit of a disconnect for me when I think that one's place in society is linked to killing things and taking their stuff.

What I have created here is an alternative system to raising and maintaining Standing that is based on a character's actions. For me, Standing should primarily go up because a character has directly benefited their culture – though there should be some room for fame as well. I tried to keep the existing treasure for Standing dynamic in there, as well, so as to be adding something rather than totally replacing it.

I'm looking for feedback. Are the numbers too small/large? Are there things it is missing? Is it something you would consider using? Why/why not?

Renown Points
The new system revolves around a new economy: Renown Points. Gaining ranks in Standing through the Raise Standing undertaking now takes a requisite number of Renown points rather than treasure.

Code: Select all

Next 
Standing Rank	Renown Point Cost
1               3
2               6
3               9
4               12
5               15
6               18

Gaining Renown Points
You gain Renown Points through your actions. The focus here is on how does one benefit their culture.

Good Deeds (player's own culture) 1 Renown
Do a good deed for your own culture. This is something that could happen in your standard adventure.
Examples
Rescue a villager from Orcs. Protect a village from being pillaged. Thwart local bandits. Return a cultural heirloom to a leader. Speak on behalf of locals to regional leader.

Great Deeds (player's own culture) 2 Renown, (other regional culture) 1 Renown
Do an exceptional deed for your own culture. These should not happen as often and should be worked up to. This is worth 1 Renown if it does not benefit your culture, but one that is regionally near your own.
Examples
Save a town from destruction. Save a leader from death. Uncover a conspiracy. Defeat a significant threat.

Legendary Deeds (any regional culture) 4 Renown
Participate in a historic event that has lasting impact on the region. The character must make a significant heroic contribution. Just being there doesn't cut it.
Examples
Smaug's attack on Laketown, Battle of Five Armies, a few places in Darkening of the Mirkwood that I won't spoil here

Famous Encounters 1–2 Renown
The character distinguishes himself as a spokesperson for the region. This is worth a different amount depending on the nature of the encounter and the import of the other party. This does not apply to secret meetings, for word must be able to spread of the event.

• Person of import (town leader, general, merchant prince, etc): 1 Renown for 5+ successes in an encounter
• Cultural leader or Luminary (Thranduil, Beorn, Radaghast, Gandalf, Saruman, etc): 1 Renown for 2+ successes, 2 Renown for 5+ successes

Public Spending 1 Renown
Spend 4 Treasure to the benefit of your culture. This can go to aiding a village rebuild after a raid, help finance public works or developing communities, or buying favor with local leaders.

Standing Upkeep (Losing Renown Points)
If a character spends a Year's End Fellowship Phase away from home, their Renown is reduced by their current Standing rating (the more you represent to a culture, the more is expected of you). If this reduces one's Renown pool to less than 0, the character immediately loses a rank in Standing. Their new Renown pool is half (round up) of what is needed to regain their Standing.


What do you think? I believe this has at least a good foundation to make a more workable system and would love some feedback to really make it shine.

[zedturtle]

I like it. I will have to play with the costs... right now it would like it seems like it would take four or more adventures to raise your Standing to 1 (assuming no Treasure spent). The published adventures seem to anticipate Standing growing a little bit quicker than that, but it's in the neighborhood of right. (And LM's could control it by adjudicating what is a Good Deed and what is a Great Deed).

I will play with the numbers and try to have more feedback for you soon.

[damiller]

That is pretty cool. A structured way to acknowledge the value of good deeds.

I think for me though, I am just going to award "Standing" treasure - gifts from the people they help (or their own culture) that can only be spent on standing.

d

[Rich H]

I've been using Renown rules for yonks now and a lot of people didn't agree with it, saying that was what Valour and Wisdom were for; nice to see more people coming around to the idea!

I think the issue I have with this proposal is that you're having to record another award (Renown points) which is just spent on, well, Renown. Seems like a bit of a redundancy. ... I wonder if there are some extra options to lessen that so that the accrued resource can be spent on other things. Or perhaps make XP the resource that is spent - which could have the added bonus of defining bonus XP rewards for adventures (ie, based upon what is achieved as per the Doc's OP).

Biggest question is: What is this Renown used for? Initially I thought it fully replaced Standing but then you have this bit...

Losing Renown
If a character spends a Year's End Fellowship Phase away from home, their Renown is reduced by their current Standing rating (the more you represent to a culture, the more is expected of you). If this reduces one's Renown pool to less than 0, the character immediately loses a rank in Standing. Their new Renown pool is half (round up) of what is needed to regain their Standing.

... Which is affected by Standing. It seems a bit whiffy as well - ie, if Renown does the same job as Standing (ie, setting initial Tolerance in an encounter) and you're also keeping Standing in your game (which the above would suggest) then I'll just keep the latter at zero so my Renown never goes down.

Personally I'd ditch Standing and replace it with Renown; it's exactly what I did in my campaign.

[Heilemann]

I find that the less things I or the players have to keep track of, the better. I play standing and its effects on the game very much by ear, and it saves us a lot of trouble without any discernible detriments.

[Rich H]

I find that the less things I or the players have to keep track of, the better. I play standing and its effects on the game very much by ear, and it saves us a lot of trouble without any discernible detriments.

I think that's a completely okay way of doing it.

I have a Renown rating for each culture (including the Home culture of each character) and increase them separately to an appropriate rating depending on what the players' characters achieve. The OP is just attempting to codify it a bit more which is understandable.

[Beran]

Technically Valour is pretty much the same thing as Renown. However, Valour and Wisdom are already used in other game mechanics. I've never understood the thought process of including something that is based on the accumulation of wealth in a ME rpg. It just doesn't make sense to me. If your character is Rich then he's rich, if he comes from a Frugal culture then he will watch his pennies and only be able to afford what is necessary. The standard of living is all that is needed IMO.

I really like the idea of Renown, and this new approach defines that idea perfectly.

[Glorelendil]

Could combine this idea with the existing rules by converting "Renown" into a kind of Treasure Points that can only be spent on Standing. I.e., "Your reward is 20 points of Treasure for the group, and 10 points each of 'Renown Treasure'." Players can then redeem a combination of real Treasure and Renown Treasure to increase standing.

Similar to what zed proposed for income from Frugal/Martial Holdings.

EDIT: But, for the record, I agree with much of what others wrote. It's unsatisfying that you have to spend Treasure to get Standing...that you could singlehandedly save your homeland from an Orc army and not get any Standing increase... and I also have thought about the need for separate Standing for different cultures.

[doctheweasel]

The thing I've noticed, is that some of the published scenarios already include a kind of "shadow economy" with Standing. I've seen some "if you are culture x, then success in this adventure reduces the cost to raise Standing by x." You end up having to track something anyway.

One of the things I want out of this system is to link Standing to actions and narrative. I'm including a house rule in my next campaign that every increase in Wisdom and Valor requires a story that demonstrates it. The goal is that over time each character becomes known for very specific things, and they each have their own separate "legend" that distinguishes them from their fellows.

That's what I want from this system as well. When you have earned enough to raise Standing, everyone knows its because you saved Stoneyfort from that band of Orcs, then helped pay to rebuild. Then you treated with the Elfking himself and your boundless wit made even him crack a wry grin. To me that makes more sense as to why your people hold you in higher regard than the existing system.

How do the numbers look to you all. Is it too hard or too easy to go up and down? It's a hard thing to judge (how many great deeds do you need to do to get some respect around here?)

[Falenthal]

I'm including a house rule in my next campaign that every increase in Wisdom and Valor requires a story that demonstrates it. The goal is that over time each character becomes known for very specific things, and they each have their own separate "legend" that distinguishes them from their fellows.

Not wanting to start a talk about Valour/Wisdom here, but I agree that in such a narrative game, it's odd for me that a player can behave like a Berseker Beorning during gameplay and then, in his Fellowship Phase, spend his earned XPs in raising his Wisdom rating.

And regarding the optional Renown rules, I can't give a precise opinion, but I like a lot two things:
First, the initial concept or relating Standing to personal deeds and not only Treasure.
Second, merging the existing rules (Standing rate and Treasure spent) with the Renown ones, and not making two ratings to keep track about.