Kinstrife & Dark Tidings: Unforeseen Actions

[Heilemann]

"We walk into the camp."

... I... What? The player-equivalent of 'think fast!'. Why this option wasn't covered in the adventure text, I'll never know. Though admittedly it hadn't occurred to me beforehand either.

I had a patrol approach, which side-stepped the problem, and I don't know if they felt railroaded, but I did

[zedturtle]

Well, I probably would have had Valter try to recruit them, or failing that, capture them. Might of led to a fight, might not have. I think some of that was discussed in the adventure, although not so clearly.

[Heilemann]

Yeah, but when they're captured, then what?

[nazgul_2000]

I had a similar issue. In my game, I misread the text, as I was skimming it on the fly during the game. I thought it said "Valtar's camp is easily visible in the middle of the forest" when in fact it says something akin to "Valtar's tent is in the middle of the encampment." Of course I didn't realize this until after the game. So, my players split up the party - two went into the surrounding woods to scout, while three walked right into the camp.

My gut told me Valtar would probably just kill them on the spot, but I let the party roll an on the fly social encounter to avoid such a fate - and as luck would have it, they aced their rolls. So Valtar let them have a meeting with Oderic in the camp. Because they also aced that social encounter, Oderic agreed to betray Valtar and aid the party.

Valtar let the party leave peacefully, but he secretly had a kill squad dispatched to follow them. Only not so secret since Oderic told them Valtar would do that. The party laid and ambush and easily defeated their pursuers.

[Eclipse]

Yeah, but when they're captured, then what?

See it as an opportunity for more adventure. Escaping captivity is a classic. It also gives you time to present the antagonists and their plans. The whole story becomes much more personal.

[Arkat]

When I re-read the adventure a couple of days ago it struck me as a very real possibility that my players would try something like this. There is nothing so far in the adventure that clearly shows the players that these are very bad people. When I run it I'll remedy that by describing bad things going on in the camp. Mistreated slaves, gruesom throphies, signs of executed prisoners and possibly orc-connections.

For this scenario to work you'll have to really drive home that these men are bad news.

[Rich H]

There is nothing so far in the adventure that clearly shows the players that these are very bad people.

I think there's plenty for the characters to work with and realise that walking into the camp is a bad move and that these men are ne'er do wells. We have:

1) Oderic is quite likely a kin slayer - the worse of all crimes to many cultures; he now sits at the side of their leader.

2) The woods the armed warband is residing/hiding in is a place of ill-repute

3) The men of the warband are not recognised by any Woodmen or Beorning PCs - ie, they are not kinsmen and are strangers to these lands.

4) Slaves are described as being within the camp.

5) The men are described as evil men and outlaws so for LMs that's easy to extrapolate that they will be of mixed origins (it's mentioned in the adventure) as well as coming up with other things to illustrate their nature - eg, violence to each other, etc

6) Valter is a suspicious/clever sort as evidenced in his 'treatment' of Oderic - ie, he is not a prisoner but he is shadowed by an outlaw so is being closely watched. Why? Something wrong is going on here... If they knew of his crimes then he'd be in chains, evidence from earlier suggest Oderic fought with some of these men - yet now he's walking around 'free', etc

.
.
.

... My players didn't even attempt a rescue of Oderic. They took one look at the force of men, what they looked to be, and where they were holed up and decided to immediately leave and, via Stonyford, report back to Beorn and the Woodmen of Mirkwood that there was a warband on their borders.

[Rich H]

Yeah, but when they're captured, then what?

... Tortured for information and then death. The players best plan an escape during that time - things are looking really grim for their characters.

[Arkat]

The men are described as evil men and outlaws so for LMs that's easy to extrapolate that they will be of mixed origins (it's mentioned in the adventure) as well as coming up with other things to illustrate their nature - eg, violence to each other, etc

Agreed. But I don't think one should assume that players with varying knowledge about dark ages morality (non-kinsmen are dangerous) and knowledge about Middle Earth (bad area) will draw these conclusions themselves. Many will probably do so, but in a setting where evil often is quite obvious (orcs and spiders!) a group of men in the wilderness is ambigious enough that trying to talk might seem like an option for a lot of players.

But as you said, the Loremaster need show off the warband's nature, and here the scenario text could have been clearer.

[Rich H]

Agreed. But I don't think one should assume that players with varying knowledge about dark ages morality (non-kinsmen are dangerous) and knowledge about Middle Earth (bad area) will draw these conclusions themselves.

... I seem to remember the above things being there in the adventure, so it's up to the Loremaster to provide that as information to the characters/players. It's one of the basic core responsibilities of a GM in any game - to be true to the characters of the players and provide them with relevant information taking the text of the scenario and presenting it to the characters in the game.

But as you said, the Loremaster need show off the warband's nature, and here the scenario text could have been clearer.

As I put in an above post, all the information I listed is (as far as I can remember) in the adventure text. If the Loremaster isn't using that in order to provide pertinent information to the players and their characters then it's not really a failure of the book, the issue is more with specific gaming groups and a lack of preparation and foresight on the LM's behalf. I may not be remembering it all fully, working from memory here, but I didn't have an issue with lack of information in the adventure. In actual fact, as also stated above, my players had a different reaction and didn't even attempt to rescue/capture Oderic, as a warband of strange ill-looking armed men on the borders of their peoples' lands was more worrying than recapturing one man.