Adversaries and Zero Endurance

[Heilemann]

Do adversaries die when reduced to zero endurance? If not, what do you do with them? How long are they out for? If the characters don't want those orcs to return, do they slit their throats? Where's the line for gaining shadow for that?

[Morgoth]

LM 64-65:

a creature is knocked out of combat at the end of a round if it is reduced to zero Endurance, or is killed outright when it is wounded once.

[Glorelendil]

I don't think that's what he was asking.

I think he's asking the following: so let's say you reduce a bunch of orcs to zero endurance, with no wounds in the whole fight. Then what? Do you slit their throats (shadow!) or do you walk away? If the latter, how long before the orcs all wake up complaining about hangovers?

[Arkat]

In a fight with orcs I wouldn't bother making my players have to face the dilemma. Orcs reduced to zero endurance are counted as dead as long as something else isn't nescesary. But if they need to interrogate some of the orcs then enough orcs would be just dying for this to happen.

In a fight with a more ambigious foe, I might make a point of it if it makes sense. Fighting against the people of Tyrant hill early in Darkening or bandits out of The Toft would probably make me rule that most of them would be just injured.

[Faire]

I wouldn't assign any SP for that - it is something that logically must happen after every battle and IMHO akin to putting down injured pet / horse, as brutal as it might seem. I doubt that Rohirrim checked the orcish casaulties to apply first aid after they defeated them - and before they burned them.

[Morgoth]

In my campaigns, we usually just assume that the downed orcs will bleed out in a short time unless treated. But I wouldn't give Shadow points for putting downed orcs out of their misery.

[Rich H]

Do adversaries die when reduced to zero endurance?

Unless they have an ability that says otherwise then this is something I adopt. In other words, against the average opponent, Wounding is a short cut to reducing endurance to zero but the outcomes are the same. And your follow up questions are why I adopted this...

If not, what do you do with them? How long are they out for? If the characters don't want those orcs to return, do they slit their throats? Where's the line for gaining shadow for that?

... It's just something I didn't want to get into in my campaign as it's arguable (I've seen many references to it on this very forum) that even things like Orcs are part of the Law of Middle Earth and therefore slaying them in such a way could result in Shadow Points whether the characters think they are committing an evil/malicious act or not.

[shipwreck]

I like the idea of niggling the rule to your advantage, ie. if they're Men and they're not wounded and perhaps partial to the plot the heroes could consider helping them, questioning them, or just leaving them alive.

Can't say if the ambiguity was intended but the usage is there.

[Rocmistro]

I would not have a problem with heroes euthanizing orcs, as long as their reasoning seemed sound.

If they were doing it for sport, torture, punishment, etc, then that would be worth shadow points.

If they just do it because it's a thing that must be done, and demonstrate that they take no joy in it, I would not award Shadow points. It's not like an Orc that has been mortally wounded and/or defeated in combat has much of a life waiting for him. What's he going to get, a medical discharge and be released back to a welcoming wife and kids? He's likely to be tortured to death for his failure as a signal to other orcs, or put out of his misery in much the same way as the players would do it (only he could possibly be conscious and aware of such an act.)

[Rich H]

I like the idea of niggling the rule to your advantage, ie. if they're Men and they're not wounded and perhaps partial to the plot the heroes could consider helping them, questioning them, or just leaving them alive.

Can't say if the ambiguity was intended but the usage is there.

I allow players to declare subdual damage before an attack if they wish to capture someone for questioning.