Hate, intimidate foe and the Undead

[Dunkelbrink]

With Rivendell, the Undead have gotten some much needed love. I've noticed that there is no rule regarding the Undead and the Combat task Intimidate foe. One could probably argue that they dead - mindless husks or cold wraiths - shouldn't care for the living shouting at them. On the other hand maybe even the dead should follow the demands from the living commanding them to rest.

With the special ability Unnatural vitality I can see the players hacking away at the undead and finishing them off with a few rounds of intimidating them. Not really sure this is the epic fight I imagined.

Have you handled this in any particular way? Do you allow your players to use Intimidate foe against all Undead (including Nazgûl and bog soldiers)? I can see the wisdom in different views here. Middle-Earth obviously handles death and undead in different ways compared to other worlds/games.

[Hermes Serpent]

Intinidate Foe - The TN for the roll is 10, plus the highest Attribute level among all foes.
Don 't forget that most undead have quite high AL's
Barrow-wight AL 4 but Denizen of the Dark pushes that to 8
Bog soldier AL 3 but no boost to AL. Unnatural Vitality is it's main hope for avoiding a quick kill.
Fell wraith AL 4 but Denizen and unnatural Vitality should keep it going plus Wraith-like needs an Enchanted weapon to wound it.
Wight-King AL 6 and Denizen plus its other abilities aren't easy to resist.

So Intimidate against TN18 or 22 but at least Hope is no longer lost on a failure.

[Glorelendil]

I don't interpret Intimidate Foe as being just looking mighty and making your foes quake in their boots. I think of it as revealing your inner power. It's kind of "using magic", as it were.

I don't have time to do text searches right now, but when I do I'll find some juicy quotes from the sacred texts.

[bluejay]

Hermes I'm not sure that's how Denuzen of the Dark works. Doesn't it just double AL for rolls the creature makes?

[Hermes Serpent]

@Bluejay the wording of Denizens is "While the creature is in the dark (at night, underground, or in a dense forest) its Attribute level is doubled as far as all rolls are concerned (attack and Protection tests included)."

The fact that it specifically calls out all rolls and stresses that includes attack and Protection tests makes it clear to me.

Looking at the specific conditions where AL is applied on p64 and 65 in the LMbook.
Attacks have AL when added to a favoured attack and it is added as a bonus when getting a great or extraordinary success, protection rolls add the AL when the armour is favoured. AL is added in skill tests for favoured skills.

One thing I do think backs up my reading of doubling AL in all cases is the use of Att. level as the number for damage for various weapons. If the AL value wasn't doubled in Darkness why would the number not be stated as a plain number rather than Att. Level? There are no rules for varying any stats of adversaries prior to the section in Rivendell so changing AL for any other reason isn't a given.

[Indur Dawndeath]

I think that it makes sense that the AL i doubled, when trying to intimidate, since it is a roll. But damage is definitly not doubled. No roll there...
As far as the logic of writing attribute instead of a number, is that the same attack types are copied to different creatures where the creatures have different attribute and it signifies that it is not a weapon, but a natural attack.

[Hermes Serpent]

Err AL is added as a bonus to Damage when getting a Great or Extraordinary success. It was clarified in the Clarifications and Amendments document.

You might be correct about using AL when a natural weapon is used, but a Trolls bite has a static damage number rather than AL but one instance might be a misprint. However both the Hill-Troll Chief AL 8 and the Cave Troll AL 7 have Bite for 5 damage with the Chief's being Favoured as well.

[Rich H]

I don't interpret Intimidate Foe as being just looking mighty and making your foes quake in their boots. I think of it as revealing your inner power. It's kind of "using magic", as it were.

Completely agree with this and in fact I did something back when we played MERP, years before TOR. During one adventure my Dunedain Ranger, in desperation, attempted to banish a Barrow Wight by reciting a poem (I made it up during the drink's break). I completely fluked a critical roll and succeeded. I think the source material is perfectly set up for things like this.

[Rocmistro]

Totally agree with Elf and Rich.

Here is an example of an "intimidate foe" rebuke that one of my characters (Elf) did recently against a Fell-beast:


"What thing is this which has come unbidden to my home...
what unclean beast now perched and rapping 'pon my chamber door?
Arrogance or ignorance, I know not which,
that spiteful ruinous thought which has compelled thee to sit upon my brow.
In years gone by my fathers, brothers, kinsman grappled with thee and thy kind
and brought thee low to the foundations of the earth, where dust and grave devoured thee for all time.
But thou returnest to trouble me again; now unmastered, now unbridled, a storm upon the wind, a tempest of the skies.
Defy I, thee, with ancient heart and ancient words, upon sharp spear and bowled shield I make my stand
and break thee with my dreaming hand!
From the bowels of hell to the mountain tops: I spit at thee!
For fury's sake and vengance old: I stab at thee!
And now with Elven tongue a curse I utter upon thee: Let thy sinews and bones be undone! Let thy flesh and scales unseem, like the stitches of a pillow I rip thee asunder and send thee swiftly to the wretched dreams by the pinch of Olosil."

(25% Poe, 25% Melville, 50% Macbeth soliloquy)

Now granted, that's a bit of a stretch, and my Loremaster gave me a "Syndrome" yellow flag monologuing warning, but would you rather have that or "I hit it with my axe!" as the way your baddie died? Intimidate foe is fantastic, and if you ask your players to put some effort into it, it's fun.