Conversion from old MERP modules

[roma912]

As a long time MERP player who is only now returning to gaming and TOR, has anybody had any success in converting MERP to TOR. I am only getting to grips with TOR so am looking for any advice.

Cheers,
Ross

[Rich H]

I'm about halfway through converting "Dawn Comes Early..." an adventure for the old ICE Lord of the Rings game. It's taking a while because the adventure was written in a very 'hand holding' style so I'm removing that and presenting it more like a normal adventure.

I can't see that ICE modules would be too difficult in actual mechanical conversions as long as the person doing the work has experience in doing such things and has a good handle on the system they are converting to. I think the challenge would come in the actual content and structure of the MERP adventures as I don't think a lot of their content was particularly suited to RPing in Tolkien's world - many were simple hack and slash affairs, containing significant magic using elements and also came with a focus on acquisition of money, treasure, and the latest +2 magic sword. In other words, translating them so that the spirit of The One Ring is maintained would be the greatest challenge.

Beyond "Dawn Comes Early..." I've thought about converting other adventures from the Lord of the Rings game but there are some MERP ones that I think could be converted; Dark Mage of Rhudaur springs to mind. It would be easy to lift that scenario and change it to a Woodman fort being assailed by various evil forces within the Darkening of Mirkwood campaign.

[Aiwendil]

Another outstanding project Rich.

Funny thing, I was running the Dark Mage from Rhudaur module earlier this year, using the Rolemaster Fantasy Role Playing (RMFRP) rule set. I agree; the adventure could easily be re-written for our current region...

... Which begs the question, does anyone know if the material formerly produced by I.C.E. is still copyright-protected, or can we freely copy-paste entire sections (text and maps)? If the latter is true, I have a fair amount of MERP modules at my disposal and, time-permitting, could assist with the conversion/tweaking...

[Otaku-sempai]

Another outstanding project Rich.

...does anyone know if the material formerly produced by I.C.E. is still copyright-protected, or can we freely copy-paste entire sections (text and maps)? If the latter is true, I have a fair amount of MERP modules at my disposal and, time-permitting, could assist with the conversion/tweaking...

I expect that all applicable copyrights stil hold and will continue to do so for their normal span. Other than being more reliant on combat and magic, I don't think that MERP veered all that far from Tolkien's vision of Middle-earth--even if it arguable had more in common with Ed Greenwood's Forgotten Realms.

[Rich H]

... Which begs the question, does anyone know if the material formerly produced by I.C.E. is still copyright-protected, or can we freely copy-paste entire sections (text and maps)? If the latter is true, I have a fair amount of MERP modules at my disposal and, time-permitting, could assist with the conversion/tweaking...

In these kind of situations I think copyright reverts back to the authors with regards to text and the artists with respect to any artwork. When I've done conversions in the past I credit the authors and artists accordingly and try to get in touch with them as well. As I produce the conversions for fans and not for profit I've not had any issues as of yet operating in such a way. Most of the time authors and artists that I have managed to get in touch with give their blessing and are happy to see their work getting use etc.

[Tolwen]

In these kind of situations I think copyright reverts back to the authors with regards to text and the artists with respect to any artwork. When I've done conversions in the past I credit the authors and artists accordingly and try to get in touch with them as well. As I produce the conversions for fans and not for profit I've not had any issues as of yet operating in such a way. Most of the time authors and artists that I have managed to get in touch with give their blessing and are happy to see their work getting use etc.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong and don't want to be the party pooper as well, though IIRC the IP to the MERP corpus went back to MEE (aka The Evil Empire) when ICE folded. And these guys are not known for their leniency with people they think are infringing their copyrights. Other Hands is an excellent example what they do even with non-profit ventures they feel are infringing their rights. This situation really sucks...

Again - I'd love to be wrong here!

Cheers
Tolwen

[Rich H]

It's a crappy situation to be sure with risks involved...

I'd be happy to be proven wrong and don't want to be the party pooper as well, though IIRC the IP to the MERP corpus went back to MEE (aka The Evil Empire) when ICE folded.

IP, yes, but that's not always the same as book content, and any artwork within it, which is an output from the license of the IP but not classed as the IP. As far as my understanding goes copyright, trademarks, and IP ownership are not all the same thing but it's (deliberately) very complicated (so lawyers can make lots of money) so I don't know for certain! I wish such things were far clearer and fairer for all involved. All I can say is how I've done things in the past and it's been okay and I'll continue to do the same until I officially get told otherwise.

And these guys are not known for their leniency with people they think are infringing their copyrights.

I'd respond accordingly to any legally backed cease orders but like I say I've never had any so as far as I'm concerned I've not done anything wrong.

Other Hands is an excellent example what they do even with non-profit ventures they feel are infringing their rights. This situation really sucks...

What exactly was the reason for the cease order for OH? I can't remember. And how do you know OM won't be hit with the same? Are you publishing under a risk?

Again - I'd love to be wrong here!

... Do you know you're definitely right? Because, no offense, we're just blokes on the internet talking about 'shit'. We could be right or wrong and until MEE tell us otherwise we don't really know do we? So, I'm going to carry on making stuff that I believe is useful to people. If that means I use some of the content from long out of print ICE products that are no longer generating profits for MEE or ICE, acknowledging the original authors and artists in it, then I will.

[Tolwen]

What exactly was the reason for the cease order for OH? I can't remember. And how do you know OM won't be hit with the same? Are you publishing under a risk?

Well, there's a certain risk I guess. But we have taken precautions to be not totally defenseless.

Here is the cease & desist text that Chris Seeman got back then in Dec. 2001:

"Other Hands, both the biannual periodical and the website reprinting many of the pieces therefrom, constitutes an unauthorized derivative work of the Tolkien works under the Copyright Act. Other Hands is not limited to commentary on the Tolkien works nor on authorized derivatives thereof.
Instead, Other Hands publishes maps and stories that are themselves modules for role-playing games based on the Tolkien works. These modules are unauthorized derivative works. By publishing and distributing these modules, Other Hands is directly supplanting the market for licensed derivative works.
And, by publishing certain of these modules on the Internet, you are magnifying the potential harm to the sales of licensed works. Indeed, you boldly advertise the superiority of the modules published in your magazine to those licensed by Tolkien Enterprises on the ground that your magazine purportedly is not bound by licensing constraints and instead may freely sequelize all of Tolkien's works. This is not fair use, it is an infringement."

That's it. If their money is threatened (or they think it is), things get ugly. It was also in the phase when DEC got the license (for a lot of money I guess) and of course TEE was interested in pressing as much money as possible out of it.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Rich H]

Cheers Tolwen.

Here is the cease & desist text that Chris Seeman got back then in Dec. 2001:

... Instead, Other Hands publishes maps and stories that are themselves modules for role-playing games based on the Tolkien works. These modules are unauthorized derivative works. By publishing and distributing these modules, Other Hands is directly supplanting the market for licensed derivative works.

Then the above could easily be interpreted (if you so desired) to any fan material module (or supplement) produced for TOR. Also, your website accepts system-neutral module submissions so you could be in the same boat.

Shall we all stop making fan supplements for TOR and issues of OM? By producing such derivative works MEE could say they're "unauthorised derivative works" and "directly supplanting the market for licensed derivative works", so shall we just quit and stop?

[Tolwen]

Cheers Tolwen.
Shall we all stop making fan supplements for TOR and issues of OM? By producing such derivative works MEE could say they're "unauthorised derivative works" and "directly supplanting the market for licensed derivative works".

I guess the licensee is important as well. If they complain about you, stating you threaten their sales, you're likely in trouble. If they support you and state to TEE that your stuff enhances sales or at least positively supports the product, it's probably OK.

IMO this was not also a normal takedown notice but also an attempt to "clear the slate" for the new product (LotRRP back then) out of fear that the old "ballast" would hinder its start.

See also Issue 1 of OM. There is an article about this affair with OH, called "The Acroteriasm of Other Hands".

Cheers
Tolwen