Cursed items vs. Cursed Treasure

[Beran]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the treasure system in the game. If I have a special item to include in the story why would I really on roll for the PCs to find it? Items of power are not just possessions, they are story elements. If there is item of power I say they find it if they look, and the powers are revealed as the story progresses. If the item has a curse upon it then the same thing applies it is revealed in the story.

I appreciate that the designers took the time to come up with the system, however I just think it a little cumbersome.

[Glorelendil]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the treasure system in the game. If I have a special item to include in the story why would I really on roll for the PCs to find it? Items of power are not just possessions, they are story elements. If there is item of power I say they find it if they look, and the powers are revealed as the story progresses. If the item has a curse upon it then the same thing applies it is revealed in the story.

I appreciate that the designers took the time to come up with the system, however I just think it a little cumbersome.

I think the answer is that if you have a special item that is part of your story and your plot then you should absolutely just present it at the right time.

But...does every interesting/powerful/magical item meet this criterion? Are you only going to let your players have magical treasure that is so intended?

Let's look at The Hobbit:
- The One Ring: Bilbo didn't roll a Gandalf; the LM planned to give this to him.
- Sting/Glamdring/Orcrist: random rolls. Although in retrospect they...especially Sting...seem "necessary" to the story as told, that's only with hindsight. The story could still have unfolded in many ways without them.
- Bilbo's Mithril Armor: this doesn't exactly fit into the rules, but basically it's a Reward not a plot item or a random treasure roll

On the other hand, I understand the desire to insert these cool items into the game, especially after you've had so much fun designing them. And "magic items" are, admittedly, a big part of the fun of D&D-like games. I know that as soon as I write-up a magical treasure for my campaign I immediately start looking for an excuse for my players to roll, and hope they'll get Gandalfs.

[zedturtle]

Whereas I'm a bit different... whenever my players have made rolls, I've made up the magical stuff on the spot (another benefit of PbP that 'on the spot' means something a bit different). It's nice to have stuff, but not at all necessary.

[Falenthal]

I still have to apply the Magical Treasure rules in my campaign. Next session will present the players with a Hoard, so they will be able to roll.

My opinion so far (not having tested the rules) is that they seem great for Precious Objects and Wondrous Artifacts, but I have my doubts about Famous Weapons and Armors.

What I'm doing right now is creating two Famous W or A for every player. One of them is in the Index, so they can find it by chance. Another one is story related: for example, I have a Woodman who uses the Long-hafted Axe. Wolfbiter will (if the story unfolds that way) a future weapon for him, once it's reforged, to hunt the Werewolf.
Another player is a Dwarven Treasure-hunter that's looking for an undefined artifact from his grandfather. I've designed a Mithril Mail that who's location he'll have to discover via "Visit the Loremaster" undertakings and with the help from his patron, Glóin.

This way, they can come up with one Wondrous W/A via story and/or another via luck (or destiny). Or they can come up with none.

[Rich H]

I think the answer is that if you have a special item that is part of your story and your plot then you should absolutely just present it at the right time.

But...does every interesting/powerful/magical item meet this criterion? Are you only going to let your players have magical treasure that is so intended?

I agree. It's important to have both options and as the former is easy for a GM and gaming group to make up then it's great that Francesco and the guys gave us the latter as it's far harder to make up game mechanics.

[Beran]

I think the answer is that if you have a special item that is part of your story and your plot then you should absolutely just present it at the right time.

But...does every interesting/powerful/magical item meet this criterion? Are you only going to let your players have magical treasure that is so intended?

Let's look at The Hobbit:
- The One Ring: Bilbo didn't roll a Gandalf; the LM planned to give this to him.
- Sting/Glamdring/Orcrist: random rolls. Although in retrospect they...especially Sting...seem "necessary" to the story as told, that's only with hindsight. The story could still have unfolded in many ways without them.
- Bilbo's Mithril Armor: this doesn't exactly fit into the rules, but basically it's a Reward not a plot item or a random treasure roll

On the other hand, I understand the desire to insert these cool items into the game, especially after you've had so much fun designing them. And "magic items" are, admittedly, a big part of the fun of D&D-like games. I know that as soon as I write-up a magical treasure for my campaign I immediately start looking for an excuse for my players to roll, and hope they'll get Gandalfs.

Actually, I feel that powerful magical items should be inserted under fairly strict criterion. Other wise it becomes Monty Haul or a "broken game".

[Falenthal]

Actually, I feel that powerful magical items should be inserted under fairly strict criterion. Other wise it becomes Monty Haul or a "broken game".

The good thing about having rules for everything is that you can use them fully or partially.

As said before, I'm designing the most powerful items (with 3 powers, like the ones shown in the example index for the Darkening campaign) so that they only appear as part of the story of every hero (like Anduril for Aragorn), requiring an adventure or some other action in Fellowship Phases.
An additional Famous Weapon or Armor for every hero has been included in the chart, so that they could find them just by being lucky, but with only 2 powers to each (like the ones in the example index for Ruins of the North), as happened with Glamdring and Orcrist.

[Bram Corolev]

I'm still deciding how I'm going to handle the magic item rules. The rules in and of themselves are excellent, but I worry that they start the game down that slippery slope of "kewl loot" becoming the focus over story. So far my players love the Reward magic weapons because they are investing hard won points to enhance them. I've toyed with the idea of replacing the Rewards gear with the Rivendell magic item system so that players can make whatever they want instead of being limited to the examples in the Rewards section of the core book. The Dunedain and the High Elf Rewards already go this way.

[Glorelendil]

I think the answer is that if you have a special item that is part of your story and your plot then you should absolutely just present it at the right time.

But...does every interesting/powerful/magical item meet this criterion? Are you only going to let your players have magical treasure that is so intended?

Let's look at The Hobbit:
- The One Ring: Bilbo didn't roll a Gandalf; the LM planned to give this to him.
- Sting/Glamdring/Orcrist: random rolls. Although in retrospect they...especially Sting...seem "necessary" to the story as told, that's only with hindsight. The story could still have unfolded in many ways without them.
- Bilbo's Mithril Armor: this doesn't exactly fit into the rules, but basically it's a Reward not a plot item or a random treasure roll

On the other hand, I understand the desire to insert these cool items into the game, especially after you've had so much fun designing them. And "magic items" are, admittedly, a big part of the fun of D&D-like games. I know that as soon as I write-up a magical treasure for my campaign I immediately start looking for an excuse for my players to roll, and hope they'll get Gandalfs.

Actually, I feel that powerful magical items should be inserted under fairly strict criterion. Other wise it becomes Monty Haul or a "broken game".

? I don't disagree with you.

How does that relate to my post?

[Beran]

The second paragraph seemed, I thought anyway, to question my way of thinking in regards to treasure. I guess I misunderstood the point.