Orcs of the Misty Mountains - Playable Culture

[Fridokind Wargaug]

Hi,
What would you think of a mirror image of the shadow corruption system but with Hope as the "corrupting" influence. Hope could be accumulated (like shadow is normally) where an act of trust or kindness or mercy or pity or whatnot is committed by the individual or witnessed/experienced by them. Perhaps experiencing something of grand unearthly beauty or simple homely hospitality from a stranger is experienced: there is the chance of being moved by hope. A bout of "hope induced madness" may bring about a 1 point of permanent hope and gaining of positive trait.

My thought is that this is what was happened to Gollum-Smeagol in his interaction with Frodo. This would lead him to struggle with the consequences of accumulation of hope from being shown kindness and the beginnings of fellowship.

This would be the path of redemption.
K

If someone REALLY wants to leave the option open for his players to play orcs (I'm gonna do it), this would totally destroy the game. Because every time an orc sees a flower, he has to step on it. He will never to anything good in fear of suffering bouts of hope and so on.

On the other hand. If orcs simply don't suffer any corruption at all, they can do whatever they want. This however is not completely true: Let's say the group captures an evil human being. The orc of course wants to torture him, to get information or so and will do it because he will not accumulate shadow points. But the group will suffer from this action, because either they will see "orc-work" (2 shadow points) or they will go out of the room and let the orc do his things, which I would consider a misdeed. Thus, although the orc can do whatever he wants, practically one could imagine a game with a mixed group.

[Tolwen]

Thus, although the orc can do whatever he wants, practically one could imagine a game with a mixed group.

That's true. I don't think either that a mixed groupd can work for more than one or two sessions at most. If you want to include this option in your game, it's either all or none - at least for an extended campaign.
If you're interested, in OM14 there is an article dealing with the topic of playing characters from the "Dark Side" in Middle-earth.

Cheers
Tolwen

[Woodclaw]

Hey, the people who want to play Orcs in Middle Earth are generally the same people who want to be Sith Lords in Star Wars.

Whatever floats their boat...

Please don't get me started on this. I'm big fan of morally grey settings, but I really can't stand those players that, non matter what, want to play the bad guy because: "evil is kewl".

Hi,
What would you think of a mirror image of the shadow corruption system but with Hope as the "corrupting" influence. Hope could be accumulated (like shadow is normally) where an act of trust or kindness or mercy or pity or whatnot is committed by the individual or witnessed/experienced by them. Perhaps experiencing something of grand unearthly beauty or simple homely hospitality from a stranger is experienced: there is the chance of being moved by hope. A bout of "hope induced madness" may bring about a 1 point of permanent hope and gaining of positive trait.

My thought is that this is what was happened to Gollum-Smeagol in his interaction with Frodo. This would lead him to struggle with the consequences of accumulation of hope from being shown kindness and the beginnings of fellowship.

This would be the path of redemption.
K

As much as I like the intent, I don't think this idea would fit thematicly. My impression of Tolkien's work is that redemption isn't easy or cheap to achieve. This is something very much linked to Tolkien's religious upbringing, I believe: sinning is relatively easy, whereas redemption cost blood, tears and pain. Giving the orc an opposite mechanic that plays like the shadow does for normal character is very anti-thematic to me.

[Michebugio]

Actually, my intention wasn't that of opening the Orc race to make "mixed groups" possible, but simply to make it possible for the whole group to play as "the enemy" in very specific and entertaining situations, like those described by poostick7.

I'm not that interested in "redemption" mechanics as it simply isn't my priority, although one could imagine an Orc in a Fellowship just as Tolkien described Gollum and Frodo's relationship.

Maybe the Orc was captured and has to do what the other adventurers want him to do (follow tracks of his fellows, or lead the Fellowship through dangerous and unexplored areas), maybe the Orc has even a reason to make an alliance with the adventurers (to get vengeance on someone of his old tribe, for example: the Orcs hate even themselves). Maybe the Orc will take some step toward redemption too: using the mechanism that kimbo suggested, he could acquire Hope points, become "oppressed" and suffer bouts of madness, gaining Permanent points of Hope. When this happens, however, he shouldn't acquire positive Traits (or lose Flaws): he will simply walk a step towards realizing that his brutish existence is meaningless. Just as an adventurer who gets his fifth permanent Shadow point is completely lost, an Orc who gets his fifth permanent Hope point is not redeemed, he will just lose any purpose.

Gollum made some steps towards "redemption", but ultimately his purpose remained that of getting his preciousss back.

This said, I'm more interested in the raw stats now. Do you feel their skills should be different, like Deadmanwalking pointed out? Which Cultural Rewards and Virtues do you expect to see?

[Rich H]

Which Cultural Rewards and Virtues do you expect to see?

Bot sure, but I'd personally rename Valour and Wisdom to things more thematically appropriate to an orc.

[Michebugio]

Bot sure, but I'd personally rename Valour and Wisdom to things more thematically appropriate to an orc.

That was almost my first concern and it's already done

They will be Cruelty (Valour) and Cunning (Wisdom), and they will be present in the next set of rules i'll post soon.

[Rich H]

They will be Cruelty (Valour) and Cunning (Wisdom), and they will be present in the next set of rules i'll post soon.

Like 'em.

... Not sure I'd ever use these rules as for me playing a group of orcs isn't something I'm bothered about but from an intellectual perspective in seeing *if* the rules can accomodate such things I do find this interesting.

[Michebugio]

Like 'em.

... Not sure I'd ever use these rules as for me playing a group of orcs isn't something I'm bothered about but from an intellectual perspective in seeing *if* the rules can accomodate such things I do find this interesting.

Thanks Rich, I appreciate it very much especially since you've been dabbling with the rules more extensively than most of us.

I've almost finished the Virtues, the Rewards are a bit trickier and I'm doing a lot of research about ancient orcish artifacts that could fit.

[poosticks7]

One reward could be the orcish brew that The Uruks force Merry and Pippin to drink (although perhaps that is something related to Saruman.

Another could be poison for arrows/blades.

perhaps some Angmarian weapon of some kind.

[Rich H]

One reward could be the orcish brew that The Uruks force Merry and Pippin to drink (although perhaps that is something related to Saruman.

Another could be poison for arrows/blades.

perhaps some Angmarian weapon of some kind.

... And/or some kind of fetish/trinket.

For the 'Virtues' how about looking at the Shadow abilities of adversaries and either using them as a start point, tweaking them, or simply ripping them off?