Fourth Attacker on a Single Target

[Majestic]

Yeah, I get that. But Called Shots just seem so weak (at least right now in our game). Last night, I as the LM rolled an Eye at a pivotal moment, but then I realized that it was a Called Shot. Being as there were no tengwars, even that roll of an Eye didn't cause a hit (and most of the villains had only that one in 12 chance to hit).

I could still see doing that (allowing an Eye to randomly cause one of those heroes surrounding the adversary to be struck) in certain circumstances, like what we had last night (all of the heroes crowding around the single Black Uruk, more or less ignoring the Orc Soldiers and Snaga Trackers), though I'd hesitate to make that a house rule where it always happens.

[Rich H]

Yeah, I get that. But Called Shots just seem so weak (at least right now in our game).

Slightly tangential but I don't disagree with you about Called Shots. I've made a little amendment in my game to how they work for Adversaries. An EYE roll by a PC is the only way for an enemy to make use of a Called Shot (that's implied in the RAW, if not explicit) so if an attack declared as a Called Shot fails to produce any tengwars, but still meets the TN, then it hits as per a standard attack. This removes the whiff factor you speak of above and doesn't create a problem as Called Shots aren't an active choice on behalf of the enemy/LM in the same way that they are for players and their PCs. This has worked pretty well so far for my gaming group.

[Dunkelbrink]

I've made a little amendment in my game to how they work for Adversaries. An EYE roll by a PC is the only way for an enemy to make use of a Called Shot (that's implied in the RAW, if not explicit) so if an attack declared as a Called Shot fails to produce any tengwars, but still meets the TN, then it hits as per a standard attack. This removes the whiff factor you speak of above and doesn't create a problem as Called Shots aren't an active choice on behalf of the enemy/LM in the same way that they are for players and their PCs. This has worked pretty well so far for my gaming group.

I've come to the same solution and it works really well. Now an Eye is always a bad thing for the heroes and Called shots are not wasted attacks for adversaries. If you want to raise the tension even more and make your players fear the Eye you could use the rule that an ordinary hit from the adversary after a hero rolls an Eye means a successful called shot. It would still not occur more than, say, one time out of twenty or so (depending on the hero's stance and the adversary's stats of course). Personally I think that the spiders don't get to use their poison often enough...

[Falenthal]

An EYE roll by a PC is the only way for an enemy to make use of a Called Shot (that's implied in the RAW, if not explicit)

Just an Eye or Failure AND Eye?

[Rich H]

An EYE roll by a PC is the only way for an enemy to make use of a Called Shot (that's implied in the RAW, if not explicit)

Just an Eye or Failure AND Eye?

Whatever the RAW is; can't remember as don't have books to hand. Believe it's whenever an EYE is rolled - failure or success.

[Falenthal]

An EYE roll by a PC is the only way for an enemy to make use of a Called Shot (that's implied in the RAW, if not explicit)

Just an Eye or Failure AND Eye?

Whatever the RAW is; can't remember as don't have books to hand. Believe it's whenever an EYE is rolled - failure or success.

We had this discussion a bit earlier in the forum and I'm positive the RAW is Failure AND Eye.
The variation to the rule (normal hit if TN is met and no Tengwars rolled) seems fair to me.

Also, considering a normal hit as a Called Shot after a hero rolls Failure AND Eye seems right.

I agree that adversaries Called Shots don't occur often enough. I think it only happened once or twice in my group after 7 adventures.

[Rich H]

We had this discussion a bit earlier in the forum and I'm positive the RAW is Failure AND Eye.

I think I went with the EYE produces a Called Shot on a fail or success so that it matches up with how Hazards work in the journey rules. It also increases the exposure to the risk of a Called Shot.

The variation to the rule (normal hit if TN is met and no Tengwars rolled) seems fair to me.

Works for me; combined with the threat of a called shot on a player rolling an EYE (failure or success).

[Fridokind Wargaug]

We have a house rule for a failure plus eye during combat. So every time you fail a roll with an eye you throw twice the D4 an pick the result from following list. We added this rule, to encourage spending hope in those situations, because most of the time a called shot from the enemy was something good, because they never hit. But I think I well add the rule, that they can hit without an eye, too. Nevertheless, here is the list:

2 the weapon gets destroyed (if it is a special weapon, it can be repaired)
3 the weapon adds one edge
4 a companion gets attacked
5 the hero drops the weapon
6 the hero hurts himself
7 the weapon loses one damage (4 first) or one injury (3 first)
8 the weapon breaks and the hero has to make a protection roll

We also have a smithy system, with which damaged weapons can be repaired.

[Rich H]

We have a house rule for a failure plus eye during combat. So every time you fail a roll with an eye you throw twice the D4 an pick the result from following list. We added this rule, to encourage spending hope in those situations, because most of the time a called shot from the enemy was something good, because they never hit. But I think I well add the rule, that they can hit without an eye, too. Nevertheless, here is the list:

2 the weapon gets destroyed (if it is a special weapon, it can be repaired)
3 the weapon adds one edge
4 a companion gets attacked
5 the hero drops the weapon
6 the hero hurts himself
7 the weapon loses one damage (4 first) or one injury (3 first)
8 the weapon breaks and the hero has to make a protection roll

We also have a smithy system, with which damaged weapons can be repaired.

Fumbles already exist within the RAW when the PC is attempting a Called Shot and they roll an EYE and fail, so you're effectively bringing this forward for standard attacks as well, although you've expanded the detail. I wrote some fumble rules but only on Called Shots and not standard attacks as well as, again, on a standard attack a fumble plus the enemy attempting a Called Shot is a double penalty to the player - a point I made in a previous post and something I don't think is in keeping with the design of the RAW.

Seems like a lot of the motivation here is that Called Shots aren't great and are often beneficial to the PCs when they are attacked with one as a failure means the enemy missing. Perhaps people should look at a solution which removes this whiff factor rather than creating an additional set of rules which need further decisions and dice rolling in order to resolve? It's certainly why I adopted my simple alteration to Called Shots for adversaries.

[Fridokind Wargaug]

We have a house rule for a failure plus eye during combat. So every time you fail a roll with an eye you throw twice the D4 an pick the result from following list. We added this rule, to encourage spending hope in those situations, because most of the time a called shot from the enemy was something good, because they never hit. But I think I well add the rule, that they can hit without an eye, too. Nevertheless, here is the list:

2 the weapon gets destroyed (if it is a special weapon, it can be repaired)
3 the weapon adds one edge
4 a companion gets attacked
5 the hero drops the weapon
6 the hero hurts himself
7 the weapon loses one damage (4 first) or one injury (3 first)
8 the weapon breaks and the hero has to make a protection roll

We also have a smithy system, with which damaged weapons can be repaired.

Fumbles already exist within the RAW when the PC is attempting a Called Shot and they roll an EYE and fail, so you're effectively bringing this forward for standard attacks as well, although you've expanded the detail. I wrote some fumble rules but only on Called Shots and not standard attacks as well as, again, on a standard attack a fumble plus the enemy attempting a Called Shot is a double penalty to the player - a point I made in a previous post and something I don't think is in keeping with the design of the RAW.

Seems like a lot of the motivation here is that Called Shots aren't great and are often beneficial to the PCs when they are attacked with one as a failure means the enemy missing. Perhaps people should look at a solution which removes this whiff factor rather than creating an additional set of rules which need further decisions and dice rolling in order to resolve? It's certainly why I adopted my simple alteration to Called Shots for adversaries.

Those rules only apply, when the roll is failed with an eye. It should encourage players to use hope to avoid one of the outcomings.
Additionally, adversaries have to roll the 2D4-roll too (on a Gandalf rune, of course). It is really fun to watch orcs slaughter themselves because they rolled something bad.