Voluntary bout of madness?

[Deadmanwalking]

Page 84 of the rules under Wits. It's there in black and white.

Huh. So it is. There's absolutely no mechanics to bear this out, but there it is. Good to know.

Wisdom isn't anything to do with strong will, primarily or otherwise. Resisting corruption is primarily achieved through a character's Wisdom (ie, their sense of self and enlightenment) and may be boosted in times of great need (ie, spending Hope) with a character's Heart attribute (ie, being hard to demoralise etc).

Wisdom is certainly primarily, well, being wise. Good judgment and the like. However, given that it is also the stat used to resist temptation it certainly also includes an element of self control...which is generally (and more or less accurately) thought of as part of the term 'willpower'. As is the bravery covered by Valour, in a somewhat different way. Heart is also thus relevant to will, given its relationship to Valour and Wisdom.

Wits, meanwhile, is stated to reflect strong will...but given no real mechanical support in doing so. So...I'd be inclined to argue that willpower as such is clearly a mix of those four stats, with different elements coming under each (self-control is Wisdom, bravery is Valour, with Heart being the passion and stubbornness for extraordinary feats of both, and to keep going in the face of adversity, with Wits perhaps representing resistance to more subtle methods of persuasion and sticking to one's guns).

Which, logically, seems to indicate that Frodo would've had good ratings in all of them. Which sounds right-ish to me. I'd make him with the Witty Gentleman background and definitely suggest he got Wisdom and Valour pretty high pretty darn quick (likely by neglecting his weapon skills almost entirely). 6 is probably excessive, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have at least a 3 in both Wisdom and Valour by Rivendell, and would expect Wisdom 5 or so by the time things were all over.

Whoa whoa, easy there! Drop your weapons and have some beer, both of you

Also, this. I think everyone needs to take a moment and just chill out.

[Rich H]

Wisdom is certainly primarily, well, being wise. Good judgment and the like. However, given that it is also the stat used to resist temptation it certainly also includes an element of self control...

Resisting temptation using Wisdom is more to do with maturity and level headedness - a calmness within the person which comes from a deep understanding of *how things are*. Understanding the truth and 'what is right' for certain actions and what is not for others. It's also more about self confidence than self control; a wise character does not succumb to the self doubt that the Shadow grows inside all men's souls and they also resist how it can undermine a character's sense of self worth. For me I often articulate Wisdom (and Valour) as 'higher values', almost intellectualised, characteristics/virtues. Certainly something 'greater' and 'refined' than raw capability. I think that's backed up by a quote from the rules:

"... they [Valour and Wisdom] are profoundly different to the other characteristics, both in what they represent and in their influence on the game".

When dealing with the 'raw power' of a character (ie, mental toughness, strong will, etc) then I associate these with a character's attributes. Capabilities that are called forth during the most desperate of times (ie, by spending Hope). That's helped me understand the delineations between Valour/Wisdom and Heart/Body/Wits and I think fits into the themes of Tolkien with regard to virtuous and ideal behaviour.

... seems to indicate that Frodo would've had good ratings in all of them. Which sounds right-ish to me. I'd make him with the Witty Gentleman background and definitely suggest he got Wisdom and Valour pretty high pretty darn quick (likely by neglecting his weapon skills almost entirely). 6 is probably excessive, but I'd be surprised if he didn't have at least a 3 in both Wisdom and Valour by Rivendell, and would expect Wisdom 5 or so by the time things were all over.

I think that's what I've stated previously, at least in part (regarding Wisdom), so I'd agree with you.

[saltmarsh]

A bout of madness is ment to be out of the players control
So I would say that no he can not voluntary have a bout of madness.
And his character would have no way of knowing when or if he was going to suffer a bout of madness so he is trying to metagame

[Jon Hodgson]

Whoa whoa, easy there! Drop your weapons and have some beer, both of you

Quite. This is an old disagreement now, but it warrants a mention from a moderation perspective:

We don't want to see arguments where people move the goalposts when their points are answered, and I don't want to see people declaring others to not be worthy of engaging with.

No one should be throwing out ever-changing points to perpetuate an argument. Equally if you feel someone is personally annoying then please navigate away from that thread for a while.

Back on topic please. Thank you!