Grimbeorn the Old?

[Doc Martin]

Recently found this game through the bargain bundle a few weeks ago and think it's fantastic. As a long-term devotee of Tolkien and his invented world inevitably questions of detail start to play on my mind, hopefully not just through pedantry but also a desire to find scenarios and situations suitable for interesting gaming.

So, Beorn's son Grimbeorn. In Rivendell, in TA 3018 Gloin tells Frodo of 'Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn'. When Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves visit in TA 2941 there is no sign of Beorn having any family. The One Ring rpg suggests that Grimbeorn "should be born at least before the year [TA] 2970" (p.276 - revised edition). However, this would seem to make Grimbeorn too young to deserve the epithet 'the Old' by 3018. There is another Northman who has that nickname - Aldor the Old, the 3rd king of Rohan - he lives until he's 101! Many other of the kings of Rohan listed in Appendix A of the Lord of the Rings live until their 70s or even 80s without being called 'the Old' - which seems to suggest that Grimbeorn should have been born at least by the time of the events of the Hobbit (77 years before he is called 'the Old'). That same list tells us that the first king of Rohan, Eorl 'the Young' "was so named because he succeeded his father in youth and remained yellow-haired and ruddy to the end of his days". Possibly Grimbeorn is prematurely grey-haired or of a particularly sober and mature disposition from a young age?

However, might an interesting alternative be that Grimbeorn is indeed old for a Northman by 3018 - born in the 2930s perhaps - but that Beorn has become estranged from his family? We are told in the Hobbit that Beorn's "hall had not seen such a gathering for many a year" implying that it had held gatherings of a dozen or more in the past - these could include family rather than guests. I wouldn't advocate a soap-opera backstory for Beorn and his family but the northern European myth and legend so beloved of Tolkien would provide suitable examples of families divided by feud, pride, conflict and misunderstanding. Alternatively, the reason might be more closely tied to the fantastical setting - Beorn's skin changing might make it too dangerous for a family to stay with him, or the various perils of the Vale of Anduin might have divided the family.

Of course, my aim in all this is to create a situation in which rpg players can have fun - if the family has been divided by an estrangement could there be a way for them to put it right? Or might they encounter a young captive held by goblins or outlaws (or even a outlaw by choice?) who is actually Grimbeorn? Any thoughts?

Finally, my nitpicking is not intended to be in any way a criticism of the designers and writers for The One Ring - as I said above, it's a fantastic game and my mind is churning over with ideas for play.

[Stormcrow]

I agree with your analysis and your suggestions. I don't have much to add, except to suggest that once Beorn becomes more involved with the affairs of men after the Battle of Five Armies, he might have quickly taken a wife and had a son. Grimbeorn might not be particularly old by the War of the Ring; he might just be old and still hale. Or there may be other, younger Grimbeorns in the area, and he's distinguished from them by being called the Old.

[Glorelendil]

Well, if Beorn had a son just after returning from the Battle of Five Armies (how many soldiers return home with foreign wives, after all?) he might have been born in 2943. By the War of the Ring that would make him 75. That could be considered "old"

But I do like the idea that Grimbeorn was already around in 2941...the question of where he and his mother were when Thorin's company visited leads to all sorts of interesting plot hooks.

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to The One Ring! Best RPG ever.

[Otaku-sempai]

Perhaps by the time of the Council of Elrond, Grimbeorn has a son also named Grimbeorn. Therefore we have Grimbeorn the Old and Grimbeorn the Young.

[Rich H]

But I do like the idea that Grimbeorn was already around in 2941...the question of where he and his mother were when Thorin's company visited leads to all sorts of interesting plot hooks.

... They were hibernating.

EDIT: Oh, and welcome to The One Ring! Best RPG ever.

*cough* Pendragon *cough*

[Glorelendil]

Perhaps by the time of the Council of Elrond, Grimbeorn has a son also named Grimbeorn. Therefore we have Grimbeorn the Old and Grimbeorn the Young.

Genius.

[Glorelendil]

... They were hibernating.

This gets an honorable mention, too. I'm gonna buy you a bear next time I'm in the UK.

[Rich H]

This gets an honorable mention, too. I'm gonna buy you a bear next time I'm in the UK.

... Pity they don't do Hofmeister any more. For great lager:

[Rôg]

Grimbeorn the Old was born with prematurely silvery hair - it isn't a comment on his age, it's a comment on his appearance.

[Woodclaw]

Perhaps by the time of the Council of Elrond, Grimbeorn has a son also named Grimbeorn. Therefore we have Grimbeorn the Old and Grimbeorn the Young.

Genius.

I concur, this is a very sensible explanation.