Thing of Terror

[Indur Dawndeath]

At some point my players will face two enemies, both of them has the special ability: Thing of Terror.
One at TN16 the other one at TN14.
How would you handle that?
My thought was to let the players resist both individually, but that is not fair, compared to how the Nazgûl fear works by adding +1TN per extra Nazgûl.
So perhaps the correct way to handle it is to add +1TN to the highest TN... But what happens when one of them is killed, do the players get to resist Terror again at the new TN.

Any ideas?

[Morgoth]

I think the highest TN +1 would be fair. If one dies, I would not offer more rolls, assuming the players have either failed or succeeded with a great success or better. If not, they would continue rolling Fear Tests at the lower TN.

Either that, or just have them roll separately. Just because the Nazgul do it one way, doesn't mean other creatures have to do it the same way.

[Valarian]

Just roll the one Fear test, but apply it to both opponents. If they succeed at TN16, they also succeed at the TN14 one. They can fail the TN16 one, but still pass the TN14 (or reroll that one until they get the great/extraordinary success). They're daunted by any of the creatures they fail the roll for, and can't use their Attribute bonus while the creature is around. So, neither of them if they roll over TN16, one of them (and possibly the other) if they get over TN14 but below TN16, and both if they roll less than TN14.

[Indur Dawndeath]

Just roll the one Fear test, but apply it to both opponents. If they succeed at TN16, they also succeed at the TN14 one. They can fail the TN16 one, but still pass the TN14 (or reroll that one until they get the great/extraordinary success). They're daunted by any of the creatures they fail the roll for, and can't use their Attribute bonus while the creature is around. So, neither of them if they roll over TN16, one of them (and possibly the other) if they get over TN14 but below TN16, and both if they roll less than TN14.

Yes I think this is a better option! That way the Nazgûl's ability to increase the TN is unique to them.
Thanks

[Rocmistro]

If you want to do this to streamline play, that's up to you, but personally I see no reason to not require each player to make 2 Valour tests at the beginning of each round, at 14 and 16 respectively, until the usual conditions are met.

If two orcs got piercing blows against a hero in one round, one had a TN: 16 injury weapon and the other 14, would you combine that into one test at 17?

[Rich H]

If you want to do this to streamline play, that's up to you, but personally I see no reason to not require each player to make 2 Valour tests at the beginning of each round, at 14 and 16 respectively, until the usual conditions are met.

If two orcs got piercing blows against a hero in one round, one had a TN: 16 injury weapon and the other 14, would you combine that into one test at 17?

No, but Fear Effects /= Individual Piercing Attacks. Personally, for such effects, I'd pick the highest value as the TN (ie, in this case 16) and if a PC passes it, the more terrifying creature, then they are brave enough and pass the lesser one as well, etc. In other words, like Valarian described above.

[Rocmistro]

Rich, I'm not saying that's a bad way to handle it, and I get the point about piercing blows /= fear tests...but really what is the pretext to governing it that way? Is it just to streamline play? I don't see anything RAW that would require or insinuate that a Loremaster should or needs to mitigate his monsters' fear affects in that way.

**Edited last sentence to better convey my meaning.

[Rich H]

I think it's to speed up play and also because Indur (in the OP) was querying the Nazgul's effect of increasing their TN by 1 for every additional Nazgul that is present.

You're not mitigating the monsters Fear Effects at all; you're just applying one roll result to two TNs. That's not reducing the strength of the fear effect; no TNs have been reduced.

TOR's also about only rolling dice when it matters. Two fear effects are basically occuring at the same time so making each player roll twice for each effect seems to be screwing the PCs - you could get into a whiffy situation where they roll great for one ("wow I'm brave") and then afterwards crap for the other ("oh, hang on, no I'm not") to fear effects which, in the game world, are taking place simultaneously.

I'm fine with rolling once, and if the result falls between the two TNs then the highest TN would be failed, but I think rolling twice and producing the above whiffy result isn't at all satisfactory. Also you're potentially subjecting each character to spending Hope twice (to boost each roll) which I wouldn't do as LM when using such effects.

EDIT: Also, what happens if there are 4 or 5 such creatures? Are you going to make each player roll 4 or 5 times? Feck that, no thanks.

[Rocmistro]

Fair point; so it seems mostly about streamlining play - avoiding dice-opoly and what not.

I'm not sure I agree with the "fear tests coalesce" thing though, and it is a mitigation...actually it's completely omitting one monster's special attack.* In some instances it makes sense. Nazgul are essentially all the same, or at least, the sense of fear and dread that they evince all comes from the same supernatural place; this is governed by the +1 to TN ruling. But given two other monsters, say, a dragon and a spider, a person might have no fear at all of spiders but be terrified of fire, or rather just because they mastered their fear of one thing doesn't mean they have mastered their fear of the other. In that instance, I don't think it's too much different than saying "Orc 1 has a very sharp sword (TN 16) and Orc 2 has just a sharp sword (TN 14) so if your armor resists Orc 1's sword than by default it must also resist Orc 2's sword".

*And I'm not saying "DONT DO THAT!" I'm just saying, know why you're doing it and be aware of how you are altering the encounter.

[Rich H]

and it is a mitigation...actually it's completely omitting one monster's special attack.

... Which isn't as strong as the other, same effect, special ability that is taking place at the same time. That's a pretty critical piece of information you're not considering in the above statement. Out of interest, if you failed both fear attacks, would you apply the effects twice? I forget what he price of failure is in the rules - does it vary by creature?

*And I'm not saying "DONT DO THAT!" I'm just saying, know why you're doing it and be aware of how you are altering the encounter.

Erm, altering it from what exactly? From the way *you* run *your* game?