Stinging Arrow and ranges

[Falenthal]

¡No, not another topic about elven Virtues!

I was just wondering about something Rocmistro said in the topic about Deadly Archery. I'll copy it here to avoid derrailing the other topic more than I've already done:

My guess is that most players are playing their Mirkwood Elf without even asking the Loremaster if they can take tough shots, shots that might otherwise be considered not possible or allowed. Things like maximum range shots, or shots through darkness, cover, concealment. I think the abstract nature of positioning in TOR has players giving up shots without even asking the Loremaster if they could take them. If those players asked to be given a chance to make those kinds of shots, with all the penalties they imposed, then the secondary static bonus affect of Deadly Archery would realize greater value. A MWE spending hope on Stinging Arrow can fire a shot over 200' away. I daresay that most of the combat that happens in TOR's theater of the mind does not map out terrain to those distances.

Myself I don't play with measures and distances, just concepts like "it's too far away" or "they're in medium range for your short bow. That's a -2. Do you want to shoot or will you wait until they're nearer? If you wait until they're at your short range, then they can throw their spears back at you".

But I imagine a way to use the range effect of Stinging Arrow into those "conceptual range" mechanics would be to allow the archer to decrease the difficulty by one grade (-2) if it's related to distance and he spends the Hope point that Stinging Arrow asks for.

The normal distances (in yards) are 10/20/30 + Body for Bow, and 20/30/40 + Body for Great Bow.
Stinging Arrow could turn it to 20/40/60 + Body, thus allowing to shot at the long range of a Great Bow with just a medium hindrance (-2) or even to shot farther than any missile weapon with a -4.

Just a thought.

[Rich H]

Doesn't it already do this?

From the RAW for Stinging Arrow:

Spend a point of Hope when you let loose an arrow and it will fly up to twice its normal range

... Surely that means you're doubling the range bands like you've described?

I don't see what you're altering here. Can you explain further what you mean and what you're proposing in addition to what's already there in the rulebook? I can see what Rocmistro is adding in the quote of his (ie, additional elements for impossible shots, etc) but not your references regarding range, sorry.

[Falenthal]

I always read the line as "you can fire up to double your maximum range", but didn't think it referred to the bands of short/medium/long range. I still considered the bands weren't altered and considerd the shot "twice its normal range" still a -4 attack. With Deadly Archery this was a doable attack.

Maybe my point was more a clarification than an alteration, then. Seems I didn't understand the sentence fully. Thanks for the help.

[Rich H]

I always read the line as "you can fire up to double your maximum range", but didn't think it referred to the bands of short/medium/long range. I still considered the bands weren't altered and considerd the shot "twice its normal range" still a -4 attack. With Deadly Archery this was a doable attack.

Maybe my point was more a clarification than an alteration, then. Seems I didn't understand the sentence fully. Thanks for the help.

Ahhh, interesting. I'd never read it like that - but can now see why someone would. Thanks.

[DavetheLost]

I read it as doubling each range band, but I wouldn't argue very hard, if at all, if the LM interpretation was 10/20/60. In narrative situations "double normal range" is just that.

Either way being able to shoot things farther away is good.

[Glorelendil]

Maybe (and this relates to that other mega-thread, too) what we need is not more bookkeeping with every combat, but elements written into adventures that let archers occasionally make difficult shots. E.g., a goblin lookout pokes his head out high on a ledge, and the text explicitly says that the party can take one shot at him, at which point he will disappear and not be seen again.

Where's that Elf archer when you need him!?