Trolls and Sunlight.

[Rôg]

But speaking of that pre-First Age era of Twilight...we need more adversaries based on Morgoth's early experiments.

You speak of the Úvanimor.

Be careful what you wish for, you never know who is listening.

[Arthadan]

I have always imagined the Were-worms as an early experiment to create dragons. They would have all the cunning and malice of a dragon (even more) but none of the physicall strength.
Then we have many lesser evil Maiar incarnated (some as Orcs Captains) and those who hunted Elves blowing horns, so they would be afraid of Oromë if they ever crossed him. There is room for some "demonic Trolls /Ogres" for example. Not to mention Vampires.

In other group, I began a proyect called The Old Empire which was based on Melkor's servants sent to the East to enslave Mankind and make war to Elves. When Melkor focuses his attention on the west, those servants are worsipped in the East as Gods (there is a supreme a God/God of the Wild Hunt, a God of the Dead which is a Necromancer, a Messenger of the Gods which is a Vampire and an Orc God which breeds them and command them) and all them build their own city-states. When Melkor is finally defeated, most of these cities are destroyed and Melkor's servant are hunted down, but some of them (not the most powerful, that must be Sauron) survive.

In late Third Age only some mysterious ruins have survived of the great cities built by slaves (think of megalitic constructions like Zigurats) full of dark secrets and danger. A race of Maiar-blooded Orcs protect a temple in a dark jungle, the last were-worm lives in a cave a people go there to ask for advice but he demands a high price for his aid (kind of pact with the devil), there are some human Sorcerers around trying to get ancient relics and so on.

[Glorelendil]

I like the idea of a cunning, ancient, dragon-like adversary you have to go ask favors of. Sort of like a Mafia don: not particularly dangerous by himself, but commanding a lethal network of agents.

[Stormcrow]

To be fair, this is what you think it means.

Everything I say is what I think. I'm flattered that people believe I hold such absolute authority that I need to clarify this.

Would you be splitting hairs if I had said "+1" or "This." instead? Must I really speak in uncouth Internetese?

[zedturtle]

To be fair, this is what you think it means.

Everything I say is what I think. I'm flattered that people believe I hold such absolute authority that I need to clarify this.

Would you be splitting hairs if I had said "+1" or "This." instead? Must I really speak in uncouth Internetese?

Sometimes it is polite to say "In my opinion" or "I think", especially when you know that others might hold other ideas, especially when it is defensible for a difference of opinion.

[Stormcrow]

Sometimes it is polite to say "In my opinion" or "I think",

So my saying "This is what it means" was impolite? If I had said "+1," would that have been impolite?

[poosticks7]

Sometimes it is polite to say "In my opinion" or "I think",

So my saying "This is what it means" was impolite? If I had said "+1," would that have been impolite?

+1

(Sorry I tried really hard to resist doing that... really hard.)

[Rich H]

To be fair, this is what you think it means.

Everything I say is what I think. I'm flattered that people believe I hold such absolute authority that I need to clarify this.

I'm sure, having been around discussion forums for long enough, that you get that "I agree with this...", reads more like expressing an opinion than "This is what it means", which reads more like a statement of fact rather than opinion. We don't have to always put in 'my opinion' in front of everything but when we use wording such as "this is what it means", we're effectively overriding the 'in my opinion' subtext and making more of a statement of fact. I think such clarifications and caveats are important in some discussions given the subject matter and the fact we are discussing how things 'work' within Middle-Earth and what Tolkien stated, meant, and inferred on the matter at hand. These kind of threads take on an academic slant in much of the content so it isn't particularly wise to start comments off with "this is what it means", as that is (rightly, I think, given the discussion) interpreted as someone expressing a fact rather than opinion.

[Stormcrow]

I think it is my opinion, not endorsed by any other entity that I am aware of, that others have also concluded that "Twilight," in reference to trolls, probably refers to the First Age before the Sun... or maybe not. It could be a delusion on my part, but I felt fairly certain that I came across the text of this apparent book at this seeming web address: it might be here, or it might not be.

I hesitate to suggest that perhaps the author of what appears to be a footnote has apparently been very rude in not qualifying the things he—or she!—says as his—or her!—opinion. I might be shocked. I leave it for you to decide my emotional state.

Another author seems to take for granted the word "twilight" in this context—but maybe I'm reading too much into it.

Michael Drout—at least, I think it's Michael Drout; can we even be sure he really exists?—even points out how Tolkien used the very word in the first edition of The Hobbit. Anyway, that's how it feels my eyes see things. You might feel differently about what Drout says.

And finally, I'm not sure if Chapter 3 of the Quenta Silmarillion actually begins with "Through long ages the Valar dwelt in bliss in the light of the Trees beyond the Mountains of Aman, but all Middle-earth lay in a twilight under the stars." Could I have read that wrong?

Thank you, O benevolent critics of the forum, for reading some small part of this unworthy petitioner's unreliable observations. Please do not construe anything I have said as having anything but the slightest connection to reality, for in truth I do not believe I can guarantee that anything I have written supports my previous inappropriate assertion, for which I have been justly reprimanded... if you say so. I remain a humble slave to your whims of literary fashion and eagerly await my next well-deserved tongue-lashing.

[Rich H]