Celduin and Cross Characters

[pduggan]

So this is a request for some GM advice on a player level.

We're starting the Crossings of Celduin. One player has a Honorable dwarf, another has a Ranger PC (played by my teenage son), another is a woman of Dale. They fought in the grand melee and prevailed, until it was down to those three. Since it was "fight it out or determine a consensus winner" two players thought their vote to give the prize to the Dale woman would stand. The Ranger wanted to fight it out. In the confusion of the table [which was my fault as GM], it seemed that the rules of the contest indicated consensus wasn't reached, so a fight to the finish was warranted. I indicated to my son to go ahead and enter combat against the dwarf (who objected, but I missed how strenuously)

So now the player of the dwarf PC had decided that the roleplaying of the Rangers character (who has not had a bout of madness but is carrying hope below his current shadow (!) means she should play her dwarf as having NOTHING to do with this backstabbing Dunendain. I asked "well do you want to roll a new character, or make my son roll one?" and she was not sure ( i could see this was getting rather emotional in terms of the roleplay)

I didn't want to take the whole event 'back' (we did that with the dale woman wanting to kill a captive earlier in terms of given misdeeds (I understated the amount of shadow, see))

So now they have been tasked to save Dale by traveling to the Crossings, but the player of the dwarf is "If he's there I don't know what my dwarf'll do but she's not there if he is"

I gave him shadow points for seeking the glory of the contest (since the contest was all the idea of a Man of Evil working for the Bad, I think that works ok)

I tried using Bard to prevail upon the dwarf, and reprimand the ranger, in character with how the battle of the five armies would have been lost if old grudges held such sway, but apparently i focused on the issue of "rivalry" between the 2 PCs not the issue of dishonor and backstabbing by the ranger, so that had no impact on her thinking.

My son is amenable to other sanctions. We all know he's a teen kid and plays it kinda sloppy and goofy: the other player is an older person, older than myself, who tends to dislike intensely negative story elements intruding in the rpgs. Emtions were running high so we left it that she would send me an email with some suggestion on how to resolve it (no email yet). We're meeting again this Friday and I'd like to have some plans for resolution "in character" Ideas I'm having is a Ranger commander giving him a separate assignment that distances him from Celduin, and either have it relevant or irrelevant to the Celduin mission, and let the chips of division fall where they may. But I hate splitting parties and it may 'reward' him for an issue that's causing player disunity.

(I for one wonder how this will play out if he HAD had a bout of madness and attacked another PC: would the player be willing to forgive in such an instance? Why should a tolkienesque PC forgive misdeeds done under madness, especially if player vs character knowledge is handled strictly? Should I never have a bout of madness be resolved with an inter-party conflict?)

Other issues with Crossings I'm having for more fun

1. The "half endurance loss" even on a successful roll in the melee penalizes HIGH endurance characters, like the dwarf, more than low endurance characters

2. Nobody made any healing rolls so they are all still poisoned. Is the bridge going to be survivable? Should I let them retry? Are they recovering 1 endurance per night only?

3. Rangers not getting party Hope is reasonable, but HARD!

[Majestic]

Wow! Lots going on there, pduggan. You're really close to the same part as we are (I ran the whole adventure until right before the battle myself on Friday night).

My players also won the great melee with three PCs. The Elf (who was Weary and way down on Endurance) dropped his sword and told the young Woodsman and the Dwarf that it was down to the two of them. Then the Dwarf (who had already remarkably defeated Gerrold in the Strength contest) deferred to the young Woodman, letting him be the victor.

I personally would choose to retcon/take something back, if it meant the disintegration of the entire company (which sounds like could happen here). Even if you already had to 'take something back' before. I know it's not ideal, but sometimes things like that have to be done. But since you didn't go that route, now you get to (as LM) make the best out of a bad situation.

My advice would be to send an email to the player of the Dwarf first (proactively). Perhaps it would be best to have the Ranger character not going to the Celduin, like you said (is your son willing to create a new character?). Alternately, you could have your son's Ranger bend his knee and humbly ask for her forgiveness. Out of character the group could treat it as if he had suffered from a bout of madness.

The Dwarf player probably would be more understanding and sympathetic if the Ranger had done what he did during a Bout of Madness. It sounds like (from what you wrote; it's tough not having been there) like the player of the Dwarf was frustrated with the choices your son made. And though the character might have been a veteran, older Dunedain, the player is a teenager, with all that entails. One of the beauties of TOR is that foolish behavior often has a consequence, within the game itself (as it sounds like you used).

Not an easy situation, by any means. Letting the player know that you understand her frustrations, as well as admitting where you blew it (as LM) and how you'll try to improve in that area should go a long way.

Best of luck as you continue!

[Corvo]

Hi Pduggan!

Tricky situation you got there. Inter-player conflict (as opposed to inter-character) are delicate matter, because there are feelings, pride and such at stake.

My usual solution, as Master, is to take te blame on me.

I explain that without some error on my part, the problem wouldn't have arisen. Then I take the time to point out eventual problematic/wrong behaviours on the part of the players (it has to be done, else the wronged party feels, well, wronged), and conclude repeating that all this stuff wouldn't have happened if there wasn't my initial error.
Done that, I retcon the situation or take another solution the players are proposing.

Most of the time this is sifficient to clear the stormy clouds from the table.

[Rich H]

There's other information in your initial post, and other points that you raise, but I think this bit is incredibly important and needs to be looked at in isolation:

My son is amenable to other sanctions. We all know he's a teen kid and plays it kinda sloppy and goofy: the other player is an older person, older than myself, who tends to dislike intensely negative story elements intruding in the rpgs.

Basically you have a young lad (new to RPing? 14 years of age?), your son, playing with a group of older players; he gets a bit over-excited, is learning how to RP, wants to win a tournament with his PC, and the much older woman is basically RPing her Dwarf's hurt feelings to the hilt which is potentially going to lead to the disbanding of the fellowship and maybe even the gaming group as a whole if such elements bleed over into real life.

Is that pretty much where you're at?

[pduggan]

Basically you have a young lad (new to RPing? 14 years of age?), your son, playing with a group of older players; he gets a bit over-excited, is learning how to RP, wants to win a tournament with his PC, and the much older woman is basically RPing her Dwarf's hurt feelings to the hilt which is potentially going to lead to the disbanding of the fellowship and maybe even the gaming group as a whole if such elements bleed over into real life.

Is that pretty much where you're at?

He's not that new to RPing. we've RPed together for about 3-4 years actually. The older player is RPing, but I'm detecting some 'player' issues as well. She reacts very negatively to personally bad things happening in games. we had a D&D game where she had an NPC nephew character she was trying to protect: the party failed, the nephew died (by the dice) and she had to excuse herself for the night [we found we did a rule wrong, so that was resolved]. She's GMed herself on occasion and frequently fudges on behalf of players. Can't blame her to much, as a matter of playstyle.

I have sent a proactive email; waiting to hear back. Thanks for all the advice offered. I have taken the blame for the mistake, but I'd rather roll with it.

There are three other players. One of them is siding with her a bit, but seems to be operating in terms of finding 'roleplay' solutions. Another sees this as an overreaction.

Do you think in general, apart from this, that Bout of Madness situations should be either minor enough that its easily forgiven, clearly under the influence of Dark Powers, or something else? Sure Thorin and Boromir have their bouts, but they also don't get to stay alive and finish the quests....

the ranger is Bold and Lordly Warden with Lure of Power shadow weakness. Oddly the dwarf's shadow is Wanderlust, so her departing maybe makes more sense....