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[Dunheved]

Loth Lorien and the Grey Havens would be an excellent supplement. The two remaining bastions of elvish culture that have not recieved coverage.

Grey Havens take no part in the final struggle against the Shadow. You might include him in the supplement, but does it worth the cost?

True, very little is revealed about the activities of Cirdan and Co. However, they are represented at the Council of Elrond (is it Galdor who speaks there?): there are indirect links mentioned in the background of the main action of LOTR.

1. Cirdan donated his ring to Gandalf - so Cirdan is 'on a par' with Elrond and Galadriel. That would make him a big target for Sauron (surely?)
2. Cirdan is a Noldor High Elf of antiquity. He won't be the only such elf at the Grey Havens.
3. Frodo would have been very likely to have be taken by a single Ringwraith while in the Shire if Gildor and his company had not 'by chance' just been journeying on the Rivendell-Grey Havens Highway patrol/FedEx parcel service. (this strikes me as a real LM intervention, with no eagles!)
4. So... this haven of High Elves is revealed as a golden opportunity for us to run wild within TOR: it is an untouched High Elf group whose activities are not limited by any compelling details of canon... I think that for this reason this is a must-have group and extension.

So if anyone from C7 is watching: Cirdan & the Grey Havens gets my vote bigtime, please have a look at launching a new section in a new supplement based on Western Eriador... oh that's on the way isn't it?

So for me - it's worth the cost: easily . Its a second Mirkwood

and most importantly - hello to another TOR member, Southby-Taylyour.

[Falenthal]

2. Cirdan is a Noldor High Elf of antiquity. He won't be the only such elf at the Grey Havens.

In fact, he's a Sinda elf, that never went to Aman. As wise and powerful as any Noldo around Middle-Earth in the Third Age, but not one of them. But the Grey Heavens had been the capital of the elven kingdoms by the Second Age (Gil-galad being the High King, Elrond his bannerman, etc.), so surely there are still Noldo in the Grey Heavens, at least tarrying before being shipped into the West.

Besides, I need stats for the only known bearded elf in the whole history. THAT'S a Virtue!
Círdan must be a hipster.

[Southby-Taylyour]

Thanks for the welcome, it's good to be here.
I should have asked in my initial preamble if a Rohan book would include Fangorn Forest and Isengard, Not Lorien.
Although, there is a bit known of Lorien amongst the Rohirrim so I naturally assumed that it could be part of a Rohan source book.
Thinking out loud I guess

[Otaku-sempai]

Grey Havens take no part in the final struggle against the Shadow. You might include him in the supplement, but does it worth the cost?

Well, I agree that we don't need a suppliment specifically focused on the Grey Havens. However, I do feel that we need a book that covers Western Eriador, Lindon and Enedwaith. Such a volume would include locations such as Bree-land, the Shire, Annuminas, the Hills of Evendim, the Blue Mountains, the Grey Havens, the Ice Bay of Forochel, the Isle of Himling, Eryn Vorn, and the ruins of Lond Daer at the mouth of the Greyflood. Thorin's sister Dis (assuming she still lives) might still dwell in his old halls in the Blue Mountains if she felt that she could not bear to remain in Erebor (extremely speculative considering that we don't even know for certain if the father of Fili and Kili was of Durin's Folk or a Dwarf of the Blue Mountains descended from another House).

[Terisonen]

Certainly there is a certain va-et-vient between Imladris and the Grey Havens for they are the last spot where you can find Elves in Eriador&The west. But not many opportunities for venturing in Lindon and in the Blue Mountains. Much more near Lake Evendim and ruin of Annuminas

[Otaku-sempai]

Certainly there is a certain va-et-vient between Imladris and the Grey Havens for they are the last spot where you can find Elves in Eriador&The west. But not many opportunities for venturing in Lindon and in the Blue Mountains. Much more near Lake Evendim and ruin of Annuminas

Noted, but I think that there is some potential for adventure in the Blue Mountains if we include the sites of an ancient Noldor fortress, lost dwarven cities and the mines where King Avendui sheltered from the armies of Angmar--not to mention possible encounters with White Wolves, Snow-trolls, the Lossoth, Ogres and Wights. And all that is just in the northern range. As we get closer to the period of the War of the Ring we are likely to see the Enemy making overtures to the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains in the form of the offer of Rings of Power and perhaps other intrigues.

[Falenthal]

As for the Grey Havens, the Blue Mountains and such, I like to think that this region must be full of grief and longing.

Let's see, the last High King of the Noldor was Gil-galad, who reigned in Lindon (the Grey Havens). With him and his kingdom, the last glory of Beleriand and the First Age disappeared. IMHO, the decline of the Noldo began there. Also, lots of the population of the Grey Havens are probably just temporary, even more than that of Rivendell or Lórien. Elves arrive there to sail away, not to settle down.

As for the dwarves, they live near the ruins of the homes of their first fathers. Also, they are creators (sons of Aulë), and the best creator among them, Telchar, died ages ago in a city that's just a few miles away. On top of that, many of the inhabitants of the Blue Mountains had been refugees from the lost Moria and Erebor. And with Erebor restored, what kind of dwarf would decide to stay in the Blue instead of travel to the richer Lonely Mountain? Those of less skill, who would be of the lowest rank in Erebor? The oldest? Those too stubborn to leave? Probalby the best smiths and miners are gone to Erebor, and also the younger dwarves seduced by Thorin's quest and the new riches to be found in their ancient home.

Even the Dúnedain have the ruins of Vinyalondë in the zone, the first port in Middle-earth founded by the Númenóreans. A reminder of when their race was on its peak, and probably the first place where they established a settlement far from Númenor. Thus, the beginning of their greed and later downfall.

The bay of Forochel, holding the remains of the last King of Arnor and two of the palantiri. The islands of Himling, Tol Fuin and Tol Morwen that are the last pieces of the lost Beleriand.

And, if we want a sourcebook about the western coast, Drúwaith Iaur or Old Púkel land needs also to be included. A region inhabited by the Woses, probably in a larger quantity than the Drúadan forest in Rohan. Calls for some ancient history, too.

I think that it would be interesting to know why Sauron had left this regions untouched, if nothing else. Maybe they're worthless to him (at least until he deals with Gondor, Rohan and the remaining elves first), but they seem full of intersting histories to me.

[Otaku-sempai]

[quote="And, if we want a sourcebook about the western coast, Drúwaith Iaur or Old Púkel land needs also to be included. A region inhabited by the Woses, probably in a larger quantity than the Drúadan forest in Rohan. Calls for some ancient history, too.

I think that it would be interesting to know why Sauron had left this regions untouched, if nothing else. Maybe they're worthless to him (at least until he deals with Gondor, Rohan and the remaining elves first), but they seem full of intersting histories to me.[/quote]
I would agree with all of the above except to note that the region of Druwaith Iaur could be covered along with Southern Gondor.

As for Sauron, the regions of Western Eriador and Lindon are sparsely populated and have little to interest him; the only real target to interest him is the Grey Havens--at least until he hears the name 'Baggins' and learns of the Shire. TA 3017 is the earliest time when he would be likely to send 'ambassadors' to the Blue Mountains and the other Dwarf-kingdoms with offers of RIngs and friendship. It is something of a wonder that he never sent the Corsairs of Umbar against Cirdan, but perhaps Sauron was content to leave the Havens alone as the Eldar were leaving Middle-earth from there.

[Falenthal]

It is something of a wonder that he never sent the Corsairs of Umbar against Cirdan, but perhaps Sauron was content to leave the Havens alone as the Eldar were leaving Middle-earth from there.

I think this, too. It's probably easier for him to marr the land with his orc troops, making the most powerful elves grief in sorrow and want to leave Middle-earth. If he attacked Lindon, probably all elves would unite (it's their last haven!) against him, while, right now, they are only secluded and dorment, leaving the fight to the humans. Attacking the Grey Havens would be like hitting a wasps' hive.

[Rich H]

Besides, I need stats for the only known bearded elf in the whole history. THAT'S a Virtue! Círdan must be a hipster.

It's actually fake. Cirdan sticks shaved off hobbit foot hair on his face.