Hounds of Mirkwood

[Rich H]

And since it’s not specified by the RAW… I’m starting to think that, maybe, it COULD be possible to take those Virtues more than once…

Except it really is. It's absence from Cultural Virtues when it is explicitly mentioned for Masteries (Virtues) means that they can't be taken more than once. That's the logical and common sense conclusion of the comparitive texts on the matter. In other words, if they (Cultural Virtues) could be taken twice then why isn't it explicitly stated so in the same way that it is for Masteries?

[Michebugio]

Except it really is. It's absence from Cultural Virtues when it is explicitly mentioned for Masteries (Virtues) means that they can't be taken more than once. That's the logical and common sense conclusion of the comparitive texts on the matter. In other words, if they (Cultural Virtues) could be taken twice then why isn't it explicitly stated so in the same way that it is for Masteries?

It's simply a common sense conclusion (and I agree with it, by the way), but it's not logical, strictly speaking. It would be logical as well to state that since it's not written, you could actually be allowed to take them more than once.

The point is that we're still lacking an explicit line for that, and as long as there isn't an official clarification, whether Virtues can or cannot be taken more than once is just a matter of speculation.

I just dabbled with the idea of Virtues stacking with themselves, and as you can observe those rules seem to not come into conflict with the Virtues being taken more than once. My point is that the system seems to work just fine even if Virtues can actually stack with themselves.

[Andrew]

I have to side with Rich - an exception is specifically set out for Masteries, but not for Virtues. Hence, Virtues can only be taken once.

[Rocmistro]

There is also nothing explicitly written in the rules preventing me from writing down a new attribute on my character sheet: "Badassery" and setting the value for my Badassery score to [the current number of pages of the Deadly Archery thread], and then invoking it, without spending hope on all common skill tests. And Wisdom and Valour rolls.

Oh and on Weapon Skill rolls. (And also I add that value to Parry and to my Protection tests.)

And as a fixed value to damage (or do you guys think that's too much).
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So (bad tongue-in-cheek aside) generally speaking, rules are written from a permissive perspective, which means you can't do stuff (mechanically) unless the rules tell you that you can.

[Rich H]

It's simply a common sense conclusion (and I agree with it, by the way), but it's not logical, strictly speaking. It would be logical as well to state that since it's not written, you could actually be allowed to take them more than once.

That statement would only be correct *if* Masteries didn't specifically have the line of text in it that it does. Therefore logically you can conclude that the same rule isn't to be applied to Cultural Virtues because that line of text isn't there.

Andrew has confirmed now, though, so job done. Thanks.

[Michebugio]

There is also nothing explicitly written in the rules preventing me from writing down a new attribute on my character sheet: "Badassery" and setting the value for my Badassery score to [the current number of pages of the Deadly Archery thread], and then invoking it, without spending hope on all common skill tests. And Wisdom and Valour rolls.

Oh and on Weapon Skill rolls. (And also I add that value to Parry and to my Protection tests.)

And as a fixed value to damage (or do you guys think that's too much).

Oh, come on Roc, you got my point. We're on the same side here, it's just that since somebody asked this, it's a matter of fact that rules aren't too clear on this point.

But thanks Andrew for confirming our impressions. Problem solved.

[Rich H]

... it's just that since somebody asked this, it's a matter of fact that rules aren't too clear on this point.

... I think they are clear. Just because someone doesn't understand them doesn't automatically mean that they aren't. We can all have 'blonde moments'*.

* Apologies to any blonde people!

[Rocmistro]

There is also nothing explicitly written in the rules preventing me from writing down a new attribute on my character sheet: "Badassery" and setting the value for my Badassery score to [the current number of pages of the Deadly Archery thread], and then invoking it, without spending hope on all common skill tests. And Wisdom and Valour rolls.

Oh and on Weapon Skill rolls. (And also I add that value to Parry and to my Protection tests.)

And as a fixed value to damage (or do you guys think that's too much).

Oh, come on Roc, you got my point. We're on the same side here, it's just that since somebody asked this, it's a matter of fact that rules aren't too clear on this point.

But thanks Andrew for confirming our impressions. Problem solved.

Oh yeah, I got your point Mich, sorry. My..uh...heavy handed response was meant more for the OP to deliver to his friend who is asking why he can't have 2 hounds.

[Pangea]

If you want two Hounds just ask your LM if your Hound of Mirkwood can be a pair. Same mechanical effects, two dogs.
I asked why he wanted the two Hounds, and it is actually to be able to take a Rearward stance (four PCs, so, since there is a Hobbit who likes to go ranged, even with the one Hound his Woodman PC cannot also use the Great Bow, thus the desire for the second hound to count as a kind of double Protect)… so the "reskinned" Hound as two pooches would not work.

more for the OP to deliver to his friend who is asking why he can't have 2 hounds.
My feeling was already that the double Virtue didn't work, and so was 99.9% sure I was going to rule against, but wanted to see if there was something I had missed, that said you could, or that said you couldn't.
Since there is nothing specific I'll just go with my feeling and not allow it.

[Rich H]

Since there is nothing specific I'll just go with my feeling and not allow it.

I'm getting fed up of saying this so won't after this but if you could pick them twice then the same text would be there for Cultural Virtues as it is for Masteries. It isn't so you, clearly, can't pick them twice. That is specific because the rules don't say that you can; if RPG rules had to list everything that you cannot do they'd be hundreds of thousands of pages in length.