"...directly protect or favour..."

[Glorelendil]

I'm curious how folks are ruling on "Source of Inspiration" for Fellowship Focus. Here's the wording:

If a player spends a Hope point to invoke an Attribute bonus to accomplish an action that can be considered to directly protect or favour his Fellowship focus and succeeds, he immediately recovers the Hope point he just spent.

The example given has a character invoking an Attribute to succeed at a Craft roll to free his BFF. That seems pretty clear cut. Anybody have other examples? Rules of thumb? Examples that don't count?

[Angelalex242]

Attacking the bad thing attacking your buddy should count.

Protect ally does not count, but the attribute test on the protection roll that results does.

Inspire counts.

Social skill counts if you're trying to get something for your pal.

Healing obviously counts. Hunting counts cause your buddy has to eat.

I'm less sure of cases where what benefits your pal actually benefits the entire company. If the nice people let you sleep at their place, your pal benefits, but so does everyone else.

[Glorelendil]

Interesting.

I've heard others say that Inspire and other group effects do not count, although I would rule situationally that it does count if the primary reason you are using the ability is for your FF. I.e., your FF's Endurance just fell below his Fatigue, so even though other party members might get back Endurance also you are mostly doing it for your FF.

"Attacking the bad thing attacking your buddy should count." This feels really permissive to me. Again, I might allow it if your FF was in danger of getting knocked unconscious, or otherwise was facing a very deadly foe. But every kobold...I mean Snaga Tracker...probably wouldn't meet that requirement. At least in my game.

The hunting one is definitely a stretcher. Again, perhaps if the LM had created a situation where your FF...and only your FF...was starving then I could see it, but if it was just a case of a Hazard that required a Hunting roll or the whole Fellowship gains 1 extra Fatigue....then, no. And especially if the player was just fishing for AP, saying, "I think I'll try to do some hunting...to, uh, feed my FF..."

[Angelalex242]

Then again, bad guys have been known to use swarm tactics. So if 5 Snaga Trackers surround Gimli, Legolas is probably okay to shoot one. And he finally gets to use Deadly Archery while he's at it!

Mirkwood Elves seem to be benefit most from protecting and aiding their allies. Between Folk of the Dusk and Deadly Archery, they're most likely to have not merely an attribute bonus, but sometimes even more.

[Michebugio]

Making an extensive list of the rolls that can be involved:

Awe rolls count only when scaring off an opponent directly threatening your Fellowship focus (“TOUCH HIM AND YOU’RE DEAD.”).

Inspire rolls count on a Rally comrades combat task and your Fellowship focus benefits from it.

Persuade rolls when trying to, well, persuade an opponent to not kill your Fellowship focus (“FREE HIM! TAKE ME INSTEAD!”).

Athletics rolls when your Fellowship focus is falling from a ledge and you’re trying to grab him.

Travel rolls do not count, except in circumstances I can’t think of right now.

Stealth rolls when sneaking somewhere trying to free your Fellowship focus who is hold captive.

Awareness rolls count when something very bad is going to happen directly to your Fellowship focus and you have to notice it to save him (for example, a big boulder is falling on him: “WATCH OUT!”).

Insight rolls when a bad guy is lying about your Fellowship focus being killed or held captive (“YOU’RE LYING! I KNOW HE IS STILL ALIVE, TELL ME WHERE HE IS!”).

Search rolls count when looking for the place where your Fellowship focus has fallen unconscious or where he is held captive ("HE MUST BE HERE SOMEWHERE! KEEP SEARCHING!").

Explore rolls like Search above, but in the wilderness.

Healing rolls of course always count when on behalf of your Fellowship focus (“STAY WITH ME! DON’T FOLLOW THE LIGHT!”).

Hunting rolls when your Fellowship focus is starving to death, or when you are following the tracks of the uruk-hai who have taken as hostages your two poor fellow hobbits.

Song rolls… well, when Rallying comrades as above or in circumstances similar to Persuade, I guess.

Courtesy rolls again similar to Persuade, albeit it seems a bit stretched.

Riddle rolls count when lying about your Fellowship focus to protect him (“HE’S ALREADY FAR AWAY. YOU HAVE NO CHANCES TO FIND HIM”).

Craft rolls are given in the example in the book.

Battle rolls when, in a fight, you have to move tactically in the battlefield to reach and save your Fellowship focus ("OVER THAT HILL! WE MUST PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS!").

Lore rolls count to recall some ancient knowledge that can save your Fellowship focus ("THIS IS A MORGUL BLADE WOUND! WE NEED TO FIND ATHELAS, SOON!").


I hope this was of some help!

[bluejay]

Then again, bad guys have been known to use swarm tactics. So if 5 Snaga Trackers surround Gimli, Legolas is probably okay to shoot one. And he finally gets to use Deadly Archery while he's at it!

Mirkwood Elves seem to be benefit most from protecting and aiding their allies. Between Folk of the Dusk and Deadly Archery, they're most likely to have not merely an attribute bonus, but sometimes even more.

I believe you can only use the Hope for attribute bonuses so it won't apply to Deadly Archery.

[Rich H]

You see, I think the meaning of this is "... directly protect or [directly] favour...", otherwise getting a free hope use is almost universal as something favouring your FF could be almost anything.

Not picking on Michebugio's post explicitly (especially as I agree with nearly all of it) but he's set out a list of examples and they are always good to comment back on...

Awe rolls count only when scaring off an opponent directly threatening your Fellowship focus (“TOUCH HIM AND YOU’RE DEAD.”).

Agree. I think you're directly protecting the FF in this particular example.

Inspire rolls count on a Rally comrades combat task and your Fellowship focus benefits from it.

Disagree. It isn't a direct benefit as it affects the whole fellowship - the benefit is for all and not just used to directly protect or directly favour your FF - you're protecting/favouring everyone. Although I do like Glorelendil's example of it's usage if your FF is worse off than others in the party and may well allow it in that kind of example.

Persuade rolls when trying to, well, persuade an opponent to not kill your Fellowship focus (“FREE HIM! TAKE ME INSTEAD!”).

Agree. I think you're directly protecting the FF and them alone. Although, if they didn't have an appropriate trait to ask for a roll when usually a roll wouldn't be allowed, they wouldn't get a chance; anyone shouting such a thing would usually get ignored by an adversary in my game.

Athletics rolls when your Fellowship focus is falling from a ledge and you’re trying to grab him.

Agree. I think you're directly protecting the FF and them alone.

Travel rolls do not count, except in circumstances I can’t think of right now.

Would go on a case-by-case basis; depends what the example is.

Stealth rolls when sneaking somewhere trying to free your Fellowship focus who is hold captive.

Agree. I think you're directly favouring the FF and them alone.

Awareness rolls count when something very bad is going to happen directly to your Fellowship focus and you have to notice it to save him (for example, a big boulder is falling on him: “WATCH OUT!”).

Agree. I think you're directly protecting the FF and them alone.

Insight rolls when a bad guy is lying about your Fellowship focus being killed or held captive (“YOU’RE LYING! I KNOW HE IS STILL ALIVE, TELL ME WHERE HE IS!”).

Disagree. But, taking your quote, I'd say using hope on the Awe/Persuade roll to convince the bad guy to tell him where your FF is would constitute a free usage.

Search rolls count when looking for the place where your Fellowship focus has fallen unconscious or where he is held captive ("HE MUST BE HERE SOMEWHERE! KEEP SEARCHING!").

Agree. I think you're directly favouring the FF and them alone.

Explore rolls like Search above, but in the wilderness.

Agree. I think you're directly favouring the FF and them alone.

Healing rolls of course always count when on behalf of your Fellowship focus (“STAY WITH ME! DON’T FOLLOW THE LIGHT!”).

Agree. I think you're directly protecting/favouring the FF and them alone.

Hunting rolls when your Fellowship focus is starving to death, or when you are following the tracks of the uruk-hai who have taken as hostages your two poor fellow hobbits.

Agree. I think you're directly protecting the FF. Although others have been captured I would still allow this one even though they'd be benefitting as well; it feels right.

Song rolls… well, when Rallying comrades as above or in circumstances similar to Persuade, I guess.

Disagree. It isn't a direct benefit as it affects the whole fellowship - the benefit is for all and not just used to directly protect or directly favour your FF - you're protecting/favouring everyone. Although I do like Glorelendil's example of it's usage if your FF is worse off than others in the party and may well allow it in that kind of example.

Courtesy rolls again similar to Persuade, albeit it seems a bit stretched.

Would go on a case-by-case basis; depends what the example is.

Riddle rolls count when lying about your Fellowship focus to protect him (“HE’S ALREADY FAR AWAY. YOU HAVE NO CHANCES TO FIND HIM”).

Disagree. Just because your FF is the subject of the lie, I don't see this as directly protecting/favouring them. Mind you, if they character was being tortured then I could see it working; as he draws on his strength and relationship with his FF to resist the interrogation. Yeah, I could easily change my mind on this depending on the conditions.

Craft rolls are given in the example in the book.

Would go on a case-by-case basis; depends what the example is.

Battle rolls when, in a fight, you have to move tactically in the battlefield to reach and save your Fellowship focus ("OVER THAT HILL! WE MUST PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS!").

Agree. I think you're directly protecting the FF and them alone.

Lore rolls count to recall some ancient knowledge that can save your Fellowship focus ("THIS IS A MORGUL BLADE WOUND! WE NEED TO FIND ATHELAS, SOON!").

Agree. I think you're directly protecting/favouring the FF and them alone.

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I think there's a lot of room for each LM to apply their own rulings to how this is applied. For instance, if LMs want all/most Hope usage spent in the name of a character's fellowship focus to refresh due to this rule then they should adopt a near universal application and for any situations where it could be argued either way they should err on the side of refreshing the hope point. For those LMs that wish to be tougher then they can adopt a more pessimistic interpretation of what "... directly protect or favour..." means. Either way, it's one of those rules-as-written in the game that can be tweaked to allow each game group to apply it based on their own preferences. Although they can be frustrating, as a consensus is harder to reach, I do like rules like this - they give flexibility in their application so that each LM can tweak to their preferences.

[Rich H]

Mirkwood Elves seem to be benefit most from protecting and aiding their allies. Between Folk of the Dusk and Deadly Archery, they're most likely to have not merely an attribute bonus, but sometimes even more.

I believe you can only use the Hope for attribute bonuses so it won't apply to Deadly Archery.

The bonus gained from Deadly Archery is added when a point of Hope is being spent on an Attribute Bonus so it would apply (as long as the usage met the "... directly protect or favour..." qualifier).

[Angelalex242]

Sure. Perhaps we should clarify protect or favor in combat.

Maybe anyone who does end damage to your focus is fair game to get whacked on your next turn?

[Falenthal]

Sure. Perhaps we should clarify protect or favor in combat.

Maybe anyone who does end damage to your focus is fair game to get whacked on your next turn?

I think the case per case (is that correct in english?) is the key here. I'm with Rich, I think there's no rule that applies to every situation.

Think of this: your FF is being attacked by a lonely Goblin Tracker, but he (the FF) is at full Endurance... and 2 more heroes are attacking the same target, because that Goblin is the only one left of a group!!
You, as elven archer, shoot at that last and Wearied goblin and fail! You decide to use a Hope point to invoke an Attribute bonus and ask the LM to recover it "because the Goblin is attacking my FF".
Well, as LM, I wouldn't consider the elven archer is really "protecting his FF" from any substantial harm.

On the other hand, if your FF is being attacked by a single troll, then I'd probably allow the recovery of Hope points spent to attack the troll.