Celduin and armours SPOILERS

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Yepesnopes
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Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Yepesnopes » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:13 am

Hi all,

Last Friday we played the last part of The Crossings of Celduin, the battle. We played with a quite novel LM, so the 12 rounds of battle felt a bit flat. It would not harm that the book would include a few tips for (new) LMs on how to make the 12 rounds more interesting for players. Like including small events every few rounds, like a house set on fire, a woman and a kid threaten by some orcs... something that makes the players feel that they can change the course of (some) events and that they are doing something else than bashing passing by orcs for 12 rounds with no real impact.

But I wanted to also rise two points regarding rules
1) Armour rules
2) King's Blade & Small folk
Because we like discussing these topics in these forums :)

1) Armours: I have to say, that in such a long fight (12 rounds it was), having a good armour makes the difference in survivability. While the hobbit with a Parry score of 11 (for a TN of 23) and wearing a 1d armour was knocked unconscious after suffering 2 wounds, the Dwarf with an armour of 4d+4 ended up weary but conscious.
This happened mainly because we supported each other by doing many, many Rally comrades, so nobody went down to 0 Endurance. It may be a very specific case, but I got the impression that in long battles, like the one in this scenario, or the battle of the Pelennor Fields, or the battle of the Hornburg, wearing armour matters.

2) I have to say that my group is going back to the old version of the King's Blade. We played the whole adventure with its old version, where you don't have to spend hope, and we did not find it overpowered at all. The short sword has an injury rating 14, so any 3d + armour will likely pass the protection test. On the other hand the current version feels rather underpowered (if I am allowed of using those terms).

Gilrohir Arncelevon
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Gilrohir Arncelevon » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:28 am

On Armour and the battle at the Celduin Crossing, I have to agree with you. But I think that, perhaps, this is the game designers intention. If you are travelling and "adventurng" you need to compromise with lighter armour. But if you are going to war, its heavy armour every time. To a great extent that is in line with Tolkien's writings, the elves don't go around in their coats of mail unless they are heading to battle and he makes the specific point that the elves of Mirkwood under Oropher suffered terribly in the war of the last alliance because of their light armour. So I guess the lesson is that if you are headed to a battle, change into your coat of mail/mail hauberk. If you are journeying across the Misty Mountains, strap on the leather corslet and helmet!

Deadmanwalking
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Deadmanwalking » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:59 am

1. Yeah, I'm not seeing this as a real problem. Being weary sucks, but armor coming into its own in long battles with lots of Rallying (which is definitely a must in such long battles) seems eminently appropriate.

2. You should keep in mind what a Fell King's Blade can do. The current version is okay, quite good with Fell. The previous version was flat-out broken with Fell. The ability to effectively do Called Shots for a Pierce retroactively with Injury 16 is absurd on anything without a full 4 dice of Protection.

Looking at the math a King's Blade as is, is one of the single most effectiveness increasers among all Virtues and Rewards, improving their quickness in killing enemies vs. minions by 6-12% and vs. large foes by 37% (the latter, admittedly, at very high cost...though the minion costs are very reasonable). Add Fell, and their improvement vs. a non-Fell King's Blade is 12-15% vs. minions and a full 47% vs. larger foes (though, again, only at reall,y high cost on the latter).

Keen, for contrast, adds 3-5% vs. minions, and 17% vs. large enemies, even paired with Fell. That's right about 1/3 as good. Adding a Cultural Reward that dropped edge by 3 (or more, dropping it by 2 doesn't double the benefits of dropping it by one...I checked) instead of 1 wouldn't be balanced, and thus neither is a King's Blade sans cost.

Yepesnopes
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Yepesnopes » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:25 pm

Deadmanwalking wrote:The ability to effectively do Called Shots for a Pierce retroactively with Injury 16 is absurd on anything without a full 4 dice of Protection.
Or 3d and favoured

Corvo
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Corvo » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:59 pm

Well, King's Blade... Wait.
It's April's fool, isn't it, Yepesnopes? :lol:
I was almost falling for it...

Glorelendil
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Glorelendil » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:08 pm

While acknowledging that the original version was too good, I'm also not a fan of the new King's Blade. Then again, I'm a cheapskate about spending Hope.
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Rich H
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Rich H » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:12 pm

Glorelendil wrote:While acknowledging that the original version was too good, I'm also not a fan of the new King's Blade. Then again, I'm a cheapskate about spending Hope.
King's Blade gets me gnashing my teeth a little; not so much spending Hope but doing so in order to use a Reward where usually, unless I'm mistaken, the game mechanic effects are situational/constant. It's a subset of Virtues whose effects are accessed through spending Hope; I wish that dilineation in the rules of the game had been maintained.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885

Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318

Glorelendil
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Glorelendil » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:42 pm

Rich H wrote:
Glorelendil wrote:While acknowledging that the original version was too good, I'm also not a fan of the new King's Blade. Then again, I'm a cheapskate about spending Hope.
King's Blade gets me gnashing my teeth a little; not so much spending Hope but doing so in order to use a Reward where usually, unless I'm mistaken, the game mechanic effects are situational/constant. It's a subset of Virtues whose effects are accessed through spending Hope; I wish that dilineation in the rules of the game had been maintained.
Yes, and this too. I've mentioned before (perhaps repeatedly) that I don't like using Hope as the default mechanic for making effects at-will but limited. Spending Hope has a very specific flavor/fluff/meaning that isn't always applicable.
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Falenthal
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Falenthal » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Should we go for a 60 page thread, this time regarding King's Blade?
I'm in.

Falenthal
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Re: Celduin and armours SPOILERS

Post by Falenthal » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:14 pm

Yepesnopes wrote: Last Friday we played the last part of The Crossings of Celduin, the battle. We played with a quite novel LM, so the 12 rounds of battle felt a bit flat. It would not harm that the book would include a few tips for (new) LMs on how to make the 12 rounds more interesting for players. Like including small events every few rounds, like a house set on fire, a woman and a kid threaten by some orcs... something that makes the players feel that they can change the course of (some) events and that they are doing something else than bashing passing by orcs for 12 rounds with no real impact.
Hey! Tell your LM to try this

You won't regret it :lol:

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