Great examples of ToR Combat in TV and movies

[Azrael Macool]

So, while they've mostly all wrapped their heads around it by now, it took my RL group a while to understand how things like Endurance, Fatigue, the Weary condition, Wounded, etc, worked. I think my online group understands it, but we've technically not gotten into any combat yet, so who knows? But anyways, it's just so different than how most games work that some just have trouble getting it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had trouble getting people to get it. Well, I was watching Marvel's Daredevil on Netflix (As should you all), and in the second episode, there's a fight that almost perfectly illustrates how ToR combat works, at least in my opinion. It's the final fight, and I don't want to put in too many spoilers or anything (I don't think "he fights some guys" really constitutes a spoiler for a super hero show), but basically he's fighting with a Treated Wound, and partway through the fight becomes Weary. Hell, the episode even has him explain that he doesn't wear any armour in order to keep his Fatigue down, even though it causes him to fail all his Protection tests! :p

Anyway, I mainly just wanted to post about it because Daredevil is awesome and you should all be watching it... I mean, because I think I'll show this scene to future players in order to explain how all those different numbers and conditions interact. Also, I was curious if there were any other good examples; it seems like getting REALLY TIRED, which is the main thing that actually happens in fights, is actually very rarely shown in TV and movies; I can't even really think of an example in the LotR movies (well, except for Frodo, but he had like, every condition on him at once).

[Falenthal]

I seem to recall a duel in Excalibur where the two knights fought for hours, and they both surrendered by fatigue, not wounds. But that's my memory, and the scene could have been different.

[Corvo]

Excalibur, even to me. In that movie you got the impression that armour is damn heavy, and that most blows just pummel the opponent into submission rather than really wounding him... Yet, when that happens, it's serious.

[Azrael Macool]

I might have to check this movie out... As a fan of Arthurian legends, I'll probably either love it or hate it. Kinda like with adaptations of Tolkien 's work

[Glorelendil]

Oh Excalibur is a great movie. Great soundtrack, too.

[Rich H]

Oh Excalibur is a great movie. Great soundtrack, too.

... And gloriously quotable.

"Talk! Talk is for lovers, Merlin! I need the Sword to be king!"

[Rich H]

"Behold, the sword of power! Excalibur! Forged when the world was young; and bird and beast and flower were one with man, and death was but a dream!"

And my fave, "For it is the doom of men that they forget!"

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Aaargh, don't get me started!

[Earendil]

It's a long time since I saw Excalibur. I remember not actually being all that impressed by it, but I suspect that may have more to do with the way everyone went on about it like it was the Greatest Movie Evar!!!!!!!!11 Must watch it again, actually.

But regarding fights tiring you out, what I immediately thought of was They Live! Obviously it's not Tolkienian in any way, but there's a fist fight between the two main characters that just seems to go on forever -- phew, they've stopped at last -- no, wait, off they go again! -- and ends with them both totally exhausted. I found it hilarious, and very cool, and strangely realistic all at the same time.

For Babylon 5 fans, I also thought of the fight between Marcus and Neroon in the episode Grey 17 is Missing. A very poor A-plot, but the B-plot with the two of them is great. Both end up battered and bruised, and it's clear which one is going to win, but the other won't give in even at the point of death, because he believes that his cause is worth dying for. In the end (spoilers!) the "winner" relents because he respects such faithfulness and devotion, and it makes him question the rightness of his own cause.

(Tolkien was, by the way, a major influence on Babylon 5.)

[Rich H]

(Tolkien was, by the way, a major influence on Babylon 5.)

No shit. Straczynski, made no attempt to disguise his 'influences'; The planet Z'Ha'Dum where a great evil lay and a chasm/pit into which one of our heroes fell, sacrificing himself for others... Lorien... The Rangers... I was often in hysterics when I originally watched it. We took the piss out of it constantly and mercilessly. It was a good show though and I'd certainly sit down and watch it again.

[Earendil]

Straczynski, made no attempt to disguise his 'influences'

That's true, but in the interest of fairness, I'll point out that he said himself that he wasn't just doing "Lord of the Rings with the serial numbers filed off") and that's true too.

There were obvious elements of LotR in there, but there were plenty of differences too, and influences from lots of other sources; political, mythological and Biblical -- some of which had influenced Tolkien too, of course, so there was more than one source of similarity there.