Heal Corruption undertaking for 1 hope?

[Corvo]

Me and my players feel that the Heal Corruption undertaking (pag.172 A-Book) is a bit overpowered.
Really, it looks like an easy cop-out from the corruption mechanic, one of the defining features of The One Ring.
There was a thread already on the argument, and at least another on the Hope points, that sometimes can be too easy to recover, but I don't want to derail the discussion.

My thoughts on Healing Corruption are two-folds:
1-it is the most powerful/rewarding undertaking, mechanically speaking. So much that it disincentive choosing the other undertakings (and in HotW there are a lot of charming ones!).
2-it's too powerful. Shedding 2-6 shadow points is a lot, and relatively easy, especially for experienced heroes.
3- Experienced Heroes have it easy. This last bit worry me: the rationale should be that older heroes will slowly fall to corruption, yet it's difficult to understand how Saruman or Boromir will botch so many Craft/Song rolls...

My hypothesis of solution are these:
1-Healing Corruption isn't an undertaking. It's an extra roll that you can take, say, once a year, in addition to the normal undertakings (to solve my problem n.1)
2-Healing Corruption takes 1 Hope point. This way, it isn't an automatic choice.
3-hmmm, well... Maybe, to use Heal Corruption you have to spend your time in a way that is not related to your Calling? Or you have to use Craft and Songs to help/cheer someone else? Here I'm threading on slippery grounds, and cannot wrap my head around it.

Suggestions, opinions?

[Rich H]

When I first read the RAW I immediately reduced the Heal Corruption results to 1, 2, and 3 points as I felt they were initially too high. I haven't played with them further as my players seems to be spreading out their Undertaking choices so haven't experienced the same issues that you have.

[Yusei]

I also nerfed Heal Corruption to 1, 2 and 3 points, by mistake, because it seemed logical and I didn't check the rules. I think it was still too powerful, but hopefully my players will be interested in the new undertakings. Still, my biggest problem with Heal Corruption is that, as you said, it is easier for experienced characters. I think maybe having 1 permanent shadow point should deduct 1 success die from the roll.

[Corvo]

I also nerfed Heal Corruption to 1, 2 and 3 points, by mistake, because it seemed logical and I didn't check the rules. I think it was still too powerful, but hopefully my players will be interested in the new undertakings. Still, my biggest problem with Heal Corruption is that, as you said, it is easier for experienced characters. I think maybe having 1 permanent shadow point should deduct 1 success die from the roll.

That's an idea.
By the way, my players are refraining from taking this undertaking because they feel like cheating... then again, I think the game need some way to shed corruption, because of Dreadful Spells and such effects

[Mithrandir]

Would it be wrong to allow a Hope to be spent for a attribute bonus while taking the heal corruption undertaking?

[Angelalex242]

If you think Heal Corruption is OP, make all your players be High Elves. Problem Solved.

I, personally, think it isn't. Much in the same way a Jedi might meditate for a while to get rid of Dark Side Corruption, so to do wise heroes sing songs or make stuff every winter to heal the wounds on their souls inflicted by wicked things...so they can go out again and be heroes next year.

In general, most heroes should be doing heal corruption every winter, unless they're at 0 Shadow for some reason. That way, the choice of doing something, anything else is a reward for smart play over the course of the year. If your soul isn't weighted down, you can get a new Patron. But if it is, you gotta take care of that. The opportunity cost, then, is the real cost of heal corruption, because if that's all the Fellowship ever does with Fellowship Phases, then everything else they might've done goes by the wayside. Except for High Elves, of course, who have better things to do then this heal corruption nonsense. It's beneath the dignity of a Noldor.

[Rich H]

Let's answer the question the Mithrandir asked when he resurrected this thread shall we...

Would it be wrong to allow a Hope to be spent for a attribute bonus while taking the heal corruption undertaking?

No. That's exactly what Hope usage is for and, in my opinion, is a perfect fit thematically when used to heal Corruption. Although Corruption (Shadow) and Hope interact within the game they aren't the same thing nor are they opposites (ie, the opposite of having Shadow is not to have Hope it's to have no Shadow, nor is the absence of Hope to have Shadow) so using Hope to heal Shadow points may feel strange to some players but it really shouldn't as you're not "robbing Peter to pay Paul" when doing so.

Now, back to your necromancy, Mithrandir!

[Michebugio]

When I first read the RAW I immediately reduced the Heal Corruption results to 1, 2, and 3 points as I felt they were initially too high.

I did the same thing, but I also allowed a player who chooses this Undertaking to double the results (2, 4 and 6, so as the RAW) when he spends the Fellowship phase at home.

By the way, my problem with Heal Corruption is that it's by far the most common Undertaking my players choose! I'm not handling out more Shadow points than the official adventures indicate, it's just that (in my opinion) there aren't Undertakings as useful as this, except when players need to improve Virtues that require an Undertaking activity, or they need to increase their Reputation.

Also, I'm not comfortable with the fact that a good singer or artisan (Song/Craft 4, a great success is fairly easy to obtain) can easily cancel in a single Fellowship phase the effects of a cold-blooded murder (5 automatic Shadow points)!

[Dunkelbrink]

I agree that spending Hope on the Heal Corruption roll is perfectly fine. But with that said, I must also agree with Corvo and the original thread. Played another session the other night with the players returning to The Elven King's Halls after helping Irimë in Those who tarry... 4 out of 5 heroes stayed in the halls while the dwarf moved on to Esgaroth (he doesn't want to have dealings with the elves). During the winter and year's end I allowed two Undertakings, and I presented my list of collected Undertakings (about 30 or so different ones?). All players chose Heal Corruption.

And who can blame them really? It's powerful with a solid mechanical effect and it can be performed almost anywhere (any Sanctuary or at Home). Compared to that, hunting Grim Hawks, collecting fire-wood or the like does not really match up.

I've already house-ruled that you can only roll once, not twice, even in a Sanctuary, but that does not help. I'll probably try nerfing it with a succesful roll reducing Shadow by 1,2,3 instead of 2,4,6. Maybe changing it from being an Undetaking to a yearly roll is also worth trying out.

As has been discussed before the Hope/Shadow mechanic is central to TOR. I like the concept of the heroes cleasning themselves by Song or Craft. But not having a single Bout of Madness after 100 hours of play time is boring and not very thematic. Heal corruption is one of the reasons for this, and I am surprised to hear that some of you have not had issues with it.

[Yepesnopes]

It will depend a lot on how much corruption your players gain.

If your players are not gaining much corruption during game play, then I think its is ok to nerf the Heal Corruption undertaking, or to only allow it as an End of the year undertaking.

On the other hand, I have played games where we gain a lot of corruption (for example by facing enemy spell casters). If our GM would have nerfed Heal Corruption on those games, our PCs would not have survived three adventures.