Help me get Jackson's imagery out of my head

[Rocmistro]

{Again} As I've said many times in the last couple pages, I'm not interested in "proving" that a Balrog does or doesn't have wings. I really don't care.

My motivation for chiming in has more to do with how this interpretation intersects with the "purging" of Peter Jackson's imagery; Balrogs with wings is not something that Peter Jackson alone conceived of. In fact most people seem to support the idea that Balrogs are winged, as are most artistic expressions that I have ever seen. So the idea that one needs to purge a winged balrog image because its indicative of Peter Jackson is just not true.

Intellectually/academically, I'm more interested in how one determines that the simile has enough authority to extend over several paragraphs. Why Stormcrow had to get all venomous and condescending - an attitude which I find suspiciously common amongst those that adhere to that interpretation, I do not know. Maybe insecurity?

[Glorelendil]

Proof: Balrog

[Stormcrow]

My motivation for chiming in has more to do with how this interpretation intersects with the "purging" of Peter Jackson's imagery; Balrogs with wings is not something that Peter Jackson alone conceived of.

Who said it was?

In fact most people seem to support the idea that Balrogs are winged

You made that up.

So the idea that one needs to purge a winged balrog image because its indicative of Peter Jackson is just not true.

Well then thank goodness no one suggested that!

Intellectually/academically, I'm more interested in how one determines that the simile has enough authority to extend over several paragraphs.

You are not. How similes and metaphors work is high school English. You don't want an explanation, you want to support your position.

Why Stormcrow had to get all venomous and condescending - an attitude which I find suspiciously common amongst those that adhere to that interpretation, I do not know. Maybe insecurity?

Ooh, I'm wounded!

If your argument had simply been, "I just don't see the connection between the simile and the metaphor," that would have been the end of it. Instead you decided to opine that the only natural and reasonable interpretation must be the literal one. And THAT is what I objected to. You've hardly been a saint in this thread.

[Rich H]

[farinal]

Oh my god haha. I don't really care about the wings but I think portraying it as more "human" like demon or more beast like demon like in the movies is more interesting to me. There is also the fact that Frodo is in Moria at the moment and it's quite dark and hard to see a creature made of shadows so... use unreliable narrator when you need to create or uncreate wings.

[aramis]

I prefer my balrogs to be about 8' tall, winged, yet not capable of true flight...

Never having read the Silmarilion successfully (I find it dull as watching paint dry, tho' the cliff notes are amusing), I have only the LOTR text and movies to base it upon. The text I find not convincing that the second mention is metaphor extended from the simile earlier - the simile refers to the shadow, while the second passage refers to the wings themselves.

The animated version shows a classical demon - wings and claws and weapons.

I think PJ upsized it too much.

Many a winged beast is incapable of flight - Ostriches, Emus, Cassowaries, Penguins. A few make use of ribs rather than forelimbs for their wings - lizards all - and cannot fly, but can glide well enough. And a few mammals have wing-flaps and glide (squirrels). So non-flight wings just don't bug me. I'd bet they can glide, and that their falls to the doom involved too much weight, since the wiki entries mention that all the deaths are falling with an opponent.

[Stormcrow]

I prefer my balrogs to be about 8' tall, winged, yet not capable of true flight...

8' tall with a 100+' wingspan?

[Jon Hodgson]

This thread is now locked. You may have missed Gareth's earlier instruction not to rehash this tired argument.