Undertaking Frequency

[Otaku-sempai]

... Additionally, I often only allow my players to spend APs and XPs during an FP that doesn't occur at year end.

Wait, what? I'm not sure how that makes sense. Isn't the end-of-year Fellowship Phase the one that should provide the most opportunities for study, reflection, etc., if only because of its length? I don't understand your reasoning here, Rich.

[Rich H]

... Additionally, I often only allow my players to spend APs and XPs during an FP that doesn't occur at year end.

Wait, what? I'm not sure how that makes sense. Isn't the end-of-year Fellowship Phase the one that should provide the most opportunities for study, reflection, etc., if only because of its length? I don't understand your reasoning here, Rich.

For me APs and XPs, and most associated increases in skill, are mostly accrued 'on the job' so to speak, so you don't need a year end FP to increase your Insight or your Longsword skill, for example. It has happened during the previous adventure, the player is just spending the points to confirm/use it. Same could even be said for Wisdom or Valour; they grow organically, although the added Rewards etc complicate that a little bit. In other words, I'm not a fan of training montages - at least in my TOR games!

EDIT: Just to clarify, they can spend APs and XPs at year end as well.

[Otaku-sempai]

Okay. I understand what you mean a little better, if not entirely. And I do mostly agree with your points. At the same time there are specific Undertakings that seem especially suited to the Winter Break that could not be accomplished during a two-week stopover somewhere. I am glad to learn that you don't ban the spending of all XP and AP during this time.

[Rich H]

Okay. I understand what you mean a little better, if not entirely. And I do mostly agree with your points. At the same time there are specific Undertakings that seem especially suited to the Winter Break that could not be accomplished during a two-week stopover somewhere. I am glad to learn that you don't ban the spending of all XP and AP during this time.

That's right. I play it fast and loose but (generally) PCs can increase their Common and Weapon Skills during any kind of FP due to the way I imagine those skills growing as they adventure.

[MasterSmithwise]

I think MasterSmithwise is looking for some advise to play this great game, not advise to stop playing!
The solution of the problem is pretty easy though:
Tell your players that a Fellowship phase must be followed by an Adventure Phase. From my point of view, you can have a lot of Adventure and Fellowship Phases during a given year if it suits your group, but you'll loose the great mechanic in the game, where the players interact in the history and see the effect of their actions as time goes by...

Cheers

I appreciate you, haha.

So far all of these suggestions have been great and I think I've got a good idea to take back to the group. I think I'll ask each player where they'll be spending the phase and then narrate a general idea of what is happening in that specific location during the season. I'll let them then build their off season narrative around that. This would be in contrast to me asking what they did for the fellowship phase, having given them zero background of the area first. This likely is what is making them think they've got a bunch of spare time. If they're surrounded by an active and bustling community it'll be more difficult to do more than one or 2 undertakings.

One of the undertakings that was causing a lot of issues was the laketown market pool undertaking. My players argued (respectfully... you can read "debate" if it sounds less offensive) that they can go shopping in an evening and restricting that phase to anything but cash on hand didn't make a lot of sense. Meaning, it shouldn't take up to 3 months to buy a new lute. However, thanks to all your suggestions I've realized that I can say things like, "Crafting a new lute of such quality takes time and the crafstman requests you come back in a months time. He has to collect the quality materials first." There's really no arguing there. It just works.

[Falenthal]

One of the undertakings that was causing a lot of issues was the laketown market pool undertaking. My players argued (respectfully... you can read "debate" if it sounds less offensive) that they can go shopping in an evening and restricting that phase to anything but cash on hand didn't make a lot of sense. Meaning, it shouldn't take up to 3 months to buy a new lute. However, thanks to all your suggestions I've realized that I can say things like, "Crafting a new lute of such quality takes time and the crafstman requests you come back in a months time. He has to collect the quality materials first." There's really no arguing there. It just works.

That's it!
Buying a lute is not like today's buying: you don't register to Amazon, write down a few keywords, find the best prize and have the item sent to your house in 24 hours.
The character has to look for a luthier first. The luthier probably has other works to do, so your lute might get in queue, because shops from artisans don't usually have high quality item in stock: they're handmade on demand. Once production begins, it takes time to collect the materials, let the woods dry,... The customer has to try to product, might suggest some changes that also take time,...
And it works this way with most Undertakings: Opening a Sanctuary is not something you do in a night. You need time to know some people in town, acquire a house for living, get to know the customs there,...
Healing corruption by composing songs or working during hard days on a bench, consulting a Patron, investigating old books for knowledge lost,... All of them take time. Only that TOR doesn't care to register exactly how much time.

And always remember that a normal citizen in the Dark Ages didn't have weekends, holidays and as much spare time as we do. Most of their non-adventuring time, the characters will be really busy tending the cattle and harvesting the season's crops.

[Glorelendil]

I believe the important thing to keep in mind here is not "rules" but "narrative". The LM and the players are participating and telling a story, and the story becomes less interesting if it reads, "And over the long cold winter Grimfast of Woodland Town acquired a new sword, built a house in Dale, convinced Elrond to be his Patron, visited the Eagles for advice, hung out with the elves singing songs to relieve his sorrows, and wrote a novel."

The LM shouldn't have to explain to the player why it takes 3 months to acquire a lute; the player should be eager to explain it himself.

Just my two points of Treasure.

[Feanor]

Its very easy, if you do the math, 10 undertakings during 10 or 20 weeks of the year CAN grant a player 20 advancement points, 10/10 hope and EXP, at least according to your first post in the thread. When you consider the figures its very easy to see that that is not how the undertakings are supposed to be used. Especially since its not possible to get that kind of Exp and/or advancement points in the adventure itself. Im not trying to be obnoxious, just stating an obvious fact. Its clear to most people, that adventuring should give more in terms of character development in skills, than offtimes. Because if the offtimes bring more then players can tend to get lazy with their characters.

Anyways, your idea sounds pretty good. And im also glad that your group isnt like that, what i first said.
Sorry for misunderstanding, but i do think that more people was thinking what i typed up. I think its very important to know and understand each other in a group about the basics as to why people are playing together. And if the attitude is like that while discussing rules things tend to get inflated and the player/GM attitude quickly degrades. Just a thought. Ive seen this too many times and thats why its hard for me NOT to notice and say anything about it.