The Forsaken Inn

[zedturtle]

Okay, fair warning this will probably be a long post, as I've got a lot of background thoughts to get through...

One thing that's always made me wonder is the timeline differences between Frodo's trip from Crickhollow to Rivendell and Bilbo's trip from Hobbiton to Rivendell. One might suspect that Frodo's journey looked a bit like this:



And, of course, I've seen the Fonstad map that puts the dwarves following the road and camping a lot. But I've always had a thought, inspired by this passage:

At first they had passed through hobbit-lands, a wide respectable country inhabited by decent folk, with good roads, an inn or two, and now and then a dwarf or a farmer ambling by on business. Then they came to lands where people spoke strangely, and sang songs Bilbo had never heard before. Now they had gone on far into the Lone-lands where there were no people left, no inns and the roads grew steadily worse.

So what if we take that passage a bit more literally than most people do, and have Bilbo travel a bit more in the Hobbit-lands and spend a touch more time around Bree-land. Perhaps Gandalf has some business to take care of at Sarn Ford before he heads East (perhaps he needs to have a certain lanky Ranger or two deliver a message to Orthanc). Bilbo's journey might have looked like this:



Now you might say that such a route is unlikely. And maybe that Bilbo would not be so oblivious as to know he's going in the wrong way. Or that at least the dwarves would have been grumpy about such things.

You might well be right... but it's a single paragraph that takes us from the Green Dragon Inn to on the verge of meeting the trolls. There's not much there, and Bilbo is summing up for us; maybe he omitted some stuff in order to 'get to the good stuff' quicker.

So that's a bit of a long walk (like Bilbo's ) to get to make questions and consternations about the Forsaken Inn. All Aragorn says is:

'I don't know if the Road has ever been measured in miles beyond the Forsaken Inn, a day's journey east of Bree,'

The italics signify that Forsaken Inn is a proper name (The Ivy Bush, on the Bywater road, gets the same treatment). While it probably doesn't place in any 'Top Ten Places You Want to Visit Based on Name Alone' lists, it's name doesn't necessarily signify that it's abandoned. Bilbo didn't mention The Prancing Pony either, but I've always read the relevant section about unfamiliar songs as meaning that he did stay there.

So why am I going on about all this? Well, my players have found their way to the Forsaken Inn and have found it in use, but in need of repair. I had originally planned for it to be a normal inn, but all of my internet research (looking for pictures more than anything else) talked about how it must be abandoned and ruined.

I've certainly made it so that it's conceivable that the Inn might have been in bad shape when Bilbo et al came through and that it might not survive until the Great Years, but I remain unconvinced that we have to assume that it was ever in truly bad shape (or no worse off than anywhere else in Bree-land).

What do folks think?

[Glorelendil]

I think Eastern Eriador isn't as empty as the sages insist, and any detail filling it in is a good thing.

As one of your players, should I not be reading this thread.

[Otaku-sempai]

From Strider's words, I've generally assumed that the Forsaken Inn was still in use at the time of the War of the Ring and was the last vestige of civilization between the inhabited lands of western Eriador and Rivendell. We didn't encounter it in The Fellowship of the Ring because Aragorn knew that it would have been watched.

I do like your idea that the Company of Thorin might not have traveled straight from Hobbiton to Bree. A trip down through Sarn Ford and then back up the Greenway to Bree is at least possible for some unknown reason. However, in Tolkien's legendarium, Gandalf and Aragorn would not meet and become friends until TA 2956 (which does not preclude some sort of rendezvous with some other Ranger or maybe an Elf).

[zedturtle]

I think Eastern Eriador isn't as empty as the sages insist, and any detail filling it in is a good thing.

As one of your players, should I not be reading this thread.

Go for it, there's no secrets here.

(No one else tell Glorelendil about the basilisk in Room 23, okay?)

[zedturtle]

From Strider's words, I've generally assumed that the Forsaken Inn was still in use at the time of the War of the Ring and was the last vestige of civilization between the inhabited lands of western Eriador and Rivendell. We didn't encounter it in The Fellowship of the Ring because Aragorn knew that it would have been watched.

I do like your idea that the Company of Thorin might not have traveled straight from Hobbiton to Bree. A trip down through Sarn Ford and then back up the Greenway to Bree is at least possible for some unknown reason. However, in Tolkien's legendarium, Gandalf and Aragorn would not meet and become friends until TA 2956 (which does not preclude some sort of rendezvous with some other Ranger or maybe an Elf).

Yeah, it definitely wouldn't have been Aragorn that Gandalf would be meeting... I was just trying to be clever; it would have been other Rangers that were assigned to the area.

[Aeglosdir]

Tolkien tried to reconcile the timelines by adjusting things in the Trollshaws area (see The History of The Hobbit). Kind of suggests that he didn't think Thorin & Co went by way of Sarn Ford or Fornost in his campaign.

Maybe the Forsaken Inn was kind of a DIY establishment? No one wants to actually live there, but the owner leaves the door open and drops by with some firewood every now and then. Sign the guestbook and put a few coins in the box when you leave.

[Rich H]

What do folks think?

For my short campaign "Four's Company" where the PCs were all hobbits and the game was centred in and around Bree I introduced the Forsaken Inn as a bit of a dive; frequented by ruffians and ne'er do wells that existed pretty much to provide such types with a roof and (poor) food because such people would be frowned on/not welcome in Bree. So, a bit like the TOR version of Mos Eisley canteen but with less Jawas. Usually a place to avoid, but occasionally could prove of use/value. In my campaign above, a bandit leader used it as a point to meet and watch the road, away from his true base of operation further out in the wild. For me, this explained why it was oft avoided by people like Gandalf and Bilbo (within the books) but was still mentioned and frequented by others.

[Arthadan]

What do folks think?

For my short campaign "Four's Company" where the PCs were all hobbits and the game was centred in and around Bree I introduced the Forsaken Inn as a bit of a dive; frequented by ruffians and ne'er do wells that existed pretty much to provide such types with a roof and (poor) food because such people would be frowned on/not welcome in Bree. So, a bit like the TOR version of Mos Eisley canteen but with less Jawas. Usually a place to avoid, but occasionally could prove of use/value. In my campaign above, a bandit leader used it as a point to meet and watch the road, away from his true base of operation further out in the wild. For me, this explained why it was oft avoided by people like Gandalf and Bilbo (within the books) but was still mentioned and frequented by others.

Bree-land has very few and small settlements, I think there shouldn't be enough ruffians to populate an inn. If you are a trouble-maker in a very small comunity, everybody will know you by your name (like Bill Ferny). Also I think Rangers would destroy such a place rather than let bandits dwell happily so close to honest people settlements (because they would cause all kind of troubles, I'd expect).

Just my 2 cents.

[Rich H]

Bree-land has very few and small settlements, I think there shouldn't be enough ruffians to populate an inn. If you are a trouble-maker in a very small comunity, everybody will know you by your name (like Bill Ferny). Also I think Rangers would destroy such a place rather than let bandits dwell happily so close to honest people settlements (because they would cause all kind of troubles, I'd expect).

All good story ideas for an ongoing campaign; these kind of things can happen during a game rather than as backstory. The former is more interesting and involves the players. Rhetorically, it can also raise questions of morality - okay, the Forsaken Inn is a dive and has trouble makers who frequent it but do Rangers feel it necessary to destroy it? Places of ill repute exist and are not destroyed, why would they single out this establishment? Are they going to judge the owner and all his patrons thusly? If they did destroy it, what would that actually achieve? If ruffians have a location, then they can be watched; without it, what ends up happening? What about the people who frequented it that weren't criminals, just bad sorts or even just down on their luck - needing a 'cheaper than Bree' place to recuperate along the road?

[Aeglosdir]

Bree-land has very few and small settlements, I think there shouldn't be enough ruffians to populate an inn. If you are a trouble-maker in a very small comunity, everybody will know you by your name (like Bill Ferny).

I agree.

As an aside, there's a Spanish fan adventure that was written before HotW was published. In it, the PCs ask around in a village with four inns somewhere near the High Pass. I'm not sure if this was based on MERP demographics. In any case I kind of prefer Cubicle 7's take on that area. Also I'd love to see Cubicle 7's take on Dale.