Herbs, Breads, Elixirs and Poisons

[Elmoth]

Even Aragorn and Arwen with their skills and history struggled to heal Frodo

ARGH!

[Kurt]

Even Aragorn and Arwen with their skills and history struggled to heal Frodo

ARGH!+

Oops. Glorfindel. Sorry about that. Book vs Movie ... It's been a while, I need to read them again ... I am starting the Silmarillion whilst reading the rules for this game and the various supplements that I have. I'll re-read The Lord of the Rings after that. I also want to read Unfinished Tales.

It's a good thing that I have finished university for the year

[Elmoth]

Healing is not magical. Most of the time, at least. I am not totally sure why having to go on lengthy side quests makes the ability "worthwhile" while a lot of other skills and virtues do not need such dedication. To me it looks like you are making the ability more DIFFICULT to take advantage of, not easier or more attractive.

You could just assume that the characters has already taken account of this during downtime and carries the most common/useful herbs with them. Same as with other skills and equipment. I am assuming you are not making baking rolls for the pies of the beornings, right? When you need to roll for it is when you need a rare herb, and then you might have an adventure, but not most of the time. Otherwise it gets old very fast and loses its interest.

Logistics-playing is not what TOR is supposed to be doing, so I would not introduce it for healing. having the knowledge as background information sounds amazing, and I would share it with the players, but I would not turn this into a potion-breviwing and "search for this or that herb" game.

[Kurt]

Hi Elmoth,

Absolutely, the aim is not to make it a burdensome logistical exercise if someone wants to use the trait. As I mentioned in a response to Robin, going on constant quests for herb collection is not what I am aiming to achieve. What I do want to do is to make the skill Herb-Lore and other associated skills very much worth while, not make the ability more difficult. I did not say that I wanted to turn my game into a "search for that herb game", more for the players to think about how they heal whether through regular means or supplemented with herbal remedies (assuming that there is no problem getting the herbs).

I am trying to, in my own mind, establish a framework as to why this skill is important and how it takes place in the game. As I move forward I would be looking at other skills as well, for example Smoking. I'd be asking why is Smoking an important trait, what value does it add and why would people choose that over a more functional trait like Burglary? A friend of mine and I were talking about the complexities in languages using Japanese to English as an example, it's not just about the direct translation, there are cultural issues as well. I would like to see how this concept is applied in Custom Skills like Song, Courtesy and Riddle or the trait Fair-Spoken.

For example, Cooking. It has one sentence that says the character can cook and prepare food from simple bread to special dishes. I could look at this two ways ...

• It's a relatively useless trait, most people can cook basic meals.
• Cooking a good meal using this trait can speed up recovery or have some other positive mechanical effect.

I started with the Healing, Herb-Lore, Gardening, Cooking first because it's related to combat and recovery and impacts a characters survival. The skills that I mentioned in the previous post are all important ... or at least I want them to be. There is no mention of 'healing salves" under the Treating Wounds section (page 131) and there is an assumption that with Healing skill (page 89) you can apply use herbs or salves. Herbs and salves don't have a mechanical impact on recovery either as far as I can tell (I haven't finished reading yet). So in a way, players could argue that Herb-Lore is a useless skill, as long as you can pop down to the corner store and get some supplies you'll be alright. Which incidentally is also an automatic success given the rules on Standards of Living (page 119) where

The characters in The One Ring are adventurers, individuals used to relying on their abilities to find sustenance in the wild, rather than putting their hand into their money bags. To avoid the need for a lengthy equipment list, or overly detailed rules for economics, a characters culture provides them with a Standard of Living.

The party just needs a dwarf in it and they are set.

I don't want to play the game that way, I want each skill to matter and have a positive in-game effect. I want all the skills and traits to make a difference and be valuable. I love the flexibility that TOR has, it's a wonderful thing, so it's up to me to work out a way to utilise this flexibility in my own game in a way the makes sense to me.

The discussion and my writing on the topic was not about the collection of herbs but more about the availability. Why I think elixirs are rare, why would medicinal herbs be expensive? And ultimately why would Herb-Lore be a good choice.

As a new player I am attempting to rationalise these traits and skills through discussion, starting with the skills, traits and virtues around healing. This discussion is to help me understand how I would apply non-combat skills in the game in such a way that provides a little more depth and life in the world.

I understand that TOR is not about the logistics I would not have bought the product if it was.

Cheers,
Kurt

[Robin Smallburrow]

Kurt, below is a relevant passage from my Desert Campaign Guide:

1. Medicine & Healing
The Haruze have a formal system of court physicians, doctors and guilds for midwifes, apothecaries, alchemists and herbalists due to Númenorean influence, but the common Haruze people have little knowledge of exalted healing, being more familiar with more traditional healing methods. There are many travellers through the area and as in all regions those with money can access the best of both traditions as generally healers are respected in the area. All the great cities of Near Harad have hospices tending to the sick and injured that are maintained as charities by private and/or religious concerns. The greatest of these is The Hospice of Lost Faith in Amrûn.

here is the link to it:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/656 ... 0Guide.pdf

Page 13 onwards has a list of all the herbs/plants of the Harad area, so hope this helps you! AFAIK other fans have done similar lists of herbs for other regions, so I suggest you do a search using the Palantir Tool.

Robin S.

[Kurt]

Hi Robin,

Awesome thank you! I love the list of herbs that you have, you put a lot of work into that. The document is 72 pages! Well done! I had a look at the info using that Palantir Tool, it's so cool.

I am working on some house rules too, it's a currently a six page document (probably about ten pages when complete) and covers herbs, the trade in herbs and why herbs are expensive, elixirs and why they are very rare, the synergies between Herb-Lore, Cooking, Gardner and their relationship to Healing as well as treatment and recovery. I also address more sinister wounds that require Shadow-Lore and perhaps Elven-Lore. There is no herb list yet or significant game mechanics in the document, it's really investigating why Herb-Lore, Gardening and Cooking are excellent traits to have and the synergistic effects between them. The trait Cooking has a one line description, but with some thought and imagination you can do a lot with it. What happens if you combine Cooking and Herb-Lore? Would cooking a herbal broth be better for recovery than a kangaroo steak? Or if someone has Herb-Lore and Shadow-Lore, or Herb-Lore and Gardening! ... I think that the combinations of traits are very interesting.

I don't want my house rules document to be a mandate for my players on what must be done, it's really an exercise for my own learning and understanding. So it's less mechanics, quite generic and provides guidance and a way of thinking about healing, together with a variety of ways you can go about doing it. The example about running out of a limited supply of herbs and knowing where to find replacements was one example. It provided food for thought about the trait and an advantage for having it. If nobody in the party had Herb-Lore then they wouldn't have the option.

As Elmoth said, TOR is not a game of logistics, I agree. I don't want it to be about combat either. As we can all appreciate, TOR is a wonderful game of adventure and storytelling. The best way for me to address this in my game is to make all the non-combat skills really cool to have and fun to play. I want my players who have a character with Herb-Lore or Smoking to enjoy those traits and for their companions to appreciate that they do as well. I love the flexibility of this game, it's an amazing system, it allows Loremasters to run the game in their own way.

Once the document is closer to what I want, I'll put it up for others to read and get some feedback. It would be a good community project

Cheers,
Kurt

P.S. Doh! I just wrote another essay in my post!

[Glorelendil]

You might want to think about just handing the material you find (like Robin's treatise) to the player with the Herb-lore trait and say, "There...you figure out how to incorporate that into your storytelling." So instead of the LM figuring out how to translate flavor into new mechanics, let the player interpret dice rolls using the flavor. No new rules needed.

[Majestic]

What happens if you combine Cooking and Herb-Lore? Would cooking a herbal broth be better for recovery than a kangaroo steak? Or if someone has Herb-Lore and Shadow-Lore, or Herb-Lore and Gardening! ... I think that the combinations of traits are very interesting.

So Kurt, where in Middle-earth can one find a kangaroo steak?

[Rich H]

So Kurt, where in Middle-earth can one find a kangaroo steak?

In the Chamber of Mazupial.

I'm so very, very sorry.

[Kurt]

I know right! I was going to say koala burger but that would just be too mean.

Incidentally the house rules that I am writing have gone through one review, I making some changes and then I'll get more feedback before posting it on the forums. It should be up for everyone to have a look at next week.

Cheers,
Kurt