Horse-lords of Rohan discussion

[Kullervo]

So, bit curious, since Palantir didnt turn up anything: In regards to the Horse-tail helm, how would you interpret it? I mean, all it says is 'When in Forward stance on foot or mounted, if you roll a Gandalf Rune on an attack roll, you get a bonus success die for yourself or another companion."

The things that award bonus dice always say 'In this Encounter', and this... does not, just 'any future rolls'. Next, I'm not sure how many times this thing can trigger - I mean, as long as I keep rolling the Gandalfs, I just keep getting bonus dice? Do they stack? I mean at its best, this can become completely wierd, since you can just keep storing up these bonus dice for 'any of your future rolls' since it doesnt limit it to your encounter (Like Fey Mood or the basic ones), nor does it say 'you can only have one'. Come to think of it, it also doesnt state the usual 'Max 6 dice' , but thats probably just an oversight. Finally, not really sure if the cap for dice Riding imposes (Caps your attack roll at your Athletics dice) would allow you to throw in bonus dice from the helmet - I saw in another thread that Fey Mood probably allows it - it specifically mentions bonus dice, but not it says 'bonus dice from preliminary rolls', which Fey Mood and Horsetail helm are not...

Thoughts?

[zedturtle]

So, bit curious, since Palantir didnt turn up anything: In regards to the Horse-tail helm, how would you interpret it? I mean, all it says is 'When in Forward stance on foot or mounted, if you roll a Gandalf Rune on an attack roll, you get a bonus success die for yourself or another companion."

The things that award bonus dice always say 'In this Encounter', and this... does not, just 'any future rolls'.

Since you are in Combat, I imagine that they last for the duration of the combat. However, that doesn't necessarily have to be that way... you might use a Bonus die later on, and trigger it by narrating your success in battle influencing an Encounter or what-not.

Next, I'm not sure how many times this thing can trigger - I mean, as long as I keep rolling the Gandalfs, I just keep getting bonus dice? Do they stack? I mean at its best, this can become completely wierd, since you can just keep storing up these bonus dice for 'any of your future rolls' since it doesnt limit it to your encounter (Like Fey Mood or the basic ones), nor does it say 'you can only have one'. Come to think of it, it also doesnt state the usual 'Max 6 dice' , but thats probably just an oversight.

I think individual Loremasters will have to make calls about how long the Bonus dice are good for... there's some room for interpretation, but 'remember when I slew that orc six month ago? That should help me in my Stealth roll now.' is probably too far for most LMs.

Finally, not really sure if the cap for dice Riding imposes (Caps your attack roll at your Athletics dice) would allow you to throw in bonus dice from the helmet - I saw in another thread that Fey Mood probably allows it - it specifically mentions bonus dice, but not it says 'bonus dice from preliminary rolls', which Fey Mood and Horsetail helm are not...

I think it's a conscious choice on the part of the developers to give the Rohirrim certain ways to exceed the Athletics limit, to help represent their extraordinary familiarity with horses and riding (even, and especially, in combat).

And, of course, all of the above is my personal opinion.

[Glorelendil]

Funny I read that and just assumed it was for that combat. But of course it doesn't explicitly state that. This could be the best RAW over RAI rules exploit ever: "Finally, after decades of adventuring and carefully conserving all his bonus dice, the grey-haired Rider found himself with his companions, standing before the Dark Lord."

"Ok, I'm going to give 30 bonus dice to all five of my friends."

"How many does that leave you with?"

"Umm....117"

[Kullervo]

Well, yeah. I mean, I just wanted to see what people choose to interpret it as now since I am sure errata will take card of most inconsistencies. I am not an LM (at least, not now), but I mostly agree with Zed: its probably meant to override the cap of Athletics for Riding; I am a bit conflicted on if its meant to be allowed to trigger more than once per combat since there is no mention of stacking. Speaking of stacking, I probably wouldnt let it stack with itself, but with other sources of bonus dice - sure. Though it might be cool if it lets you roll over 6 dice, that seems contrary to every other bonus effect in the books so probably not. And yeah, 'after encounter' is probably on a case by case basis, if you can explain how that kill benefited you. I mean, maybe 'that kill' was on a Great Orc who controls that region, and your stealth roll succeeded because due to his death, the orc forces are stretched thin, so the security is less. Though, I guess that qualifies more for lower TN.

[Rich H]

I'd personally go with: only applies for the combat in question; cannot stack with other bonus dice as rules state only one bonus dice can be used at a time; doesn't go over the cap of 6 success dice; can exceed riding cap.

[Kullervo]

I'd personally go with: only applies for the combat in question; cannot stack with other bonus dice as rules state only one bonus dice can be used at a time; doesn't go over the cap of 6 success dice; can exceed riding cap.

Huh, really? I dont recall that rule at all... Guess we've been doing something wrong, then. As for stacking, I more meant to store it up - say you rolled a great success on a Battle roll that time, and you got 2 success dice. Then you made at attack vs some orc, and got a Gandalf, so there's 1 Horsehair helm bonus success die. Does that mean you have 3 now, or do you still only have 2. Thats what I meant. Though, interpreting it as '2' may be a bit punishing, I think.

[bluejay]

Rich is absolutely correct. Page 151 of the new rulebook, bottom of the left column

"...any roll may be modified by a maximum of 1 bonus Success die."

[Rich H]

Huh, really? I dont recall that rule at all... Guess we've been doing something wrong, then.

Indeed you have! [Thanks bluejay for the actual RAW reference and quote]

As for stacking, I more meant to store it up - say you rolled a great success on a Battle roll that time, and you got 2 success dice. Then you made at attack vs some orc, and got a Gandalf, so there's 1 Horsehair helm bonus success die. Does that mean you have 3 now, or do you still only have 2. Thats what I meant. Though, interpreting it as '2' may be a bit punishing, I think.

I think 'stacking' from that point of view is allowed, yes*, if only because tracking which 'stored' bonus dice applied to preliminary rolls and which applied to the virtue would be a pain and not fun.

* EDIT: Unless the RAW says that a character can only ever have 3 (but no more) bonus dice stored. I don't remember anything explicit within the rules to this effect but it could be an implied rule.

[Kullervo]

Rich is absolutely correct. Page 151 of the new rulebook, bottom of the left column

"...any roll may be modified by a maximum of 1 bonus Success die."

Yeah, I looked it up! But thanks. Seems like we've been playing it out wrong, since I distinctly recall throwing all bonus dice at the archer in the group so she could Called Shot that one super-troll successfully.

[bluejay]

You're welcome! I'm pretty sure I used it wrong for a while. Someone's comment on here made me double check it!