It's interesting... I quite like seeing 'statblocks' of famous NPCs and don't infer from them that they are meant to be fought. The reason I like seeing them is that they provide me with a working parameter of what the capabilities are for the most famous denizens of Middle Earth and therefore give me a guide as to how other NPCs (and indeed the PCs) should compare. For instance, I like how Beorn is fully statted within the main rulebook of TOR, and would like to see more characters like that as we get to see the specific 'abilities/virtues' such characters would have.Glorelendil wrote:Anyone who wants to waste neurons being offended by Gandalf stats is free to do so.
DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885
Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885
Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318
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Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
This is an important point. What makes both players and adversaries powerful isn't necessarily their base stats, but their special abilities. It might be nice to start seeing some unique abilities for unique characters.Rich H wrote:we get to see the specific 'abilities/virtues' such characters would have.
Maybe there could even be a list of special abilities for good guys, not just Adversaries. Imagine Glorfindel, for example, a few abilities that bolster/protect nearby Player-heroes.
That would give the LM some guidelines for how to involve powerful LMC's in ways other than "While you fight the 6 orcs, Glorfindel solos a few dozen of them...."
The Munchkin Formerly Known as Elfcrusher
Journey Computer | Combat Simulator | Bestiary | Weapon Calculator
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Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
People are going to do whatever they want with any given system. I'm looking forward to the 5e version becuase getting a Game of TOR up and running for more than 3 or 4 sessions is almost impossible for me locally so if the system is familiar enough I can get some people to play. I just don't want to play an arms race or something completely out of the spirit of Tolkien. Cubicle 7 did a great job keeping magic within the spirit of the books in TOR and I have every reason to think they'll do the same thing in their 5e version.
All that being said, any word on how things are progressing would be appreciated
All that being said, any word on how things are progressing would be appreciated
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
Well, maybe bot an update but. . .
According CoolStuffInc website, "Dungeons & Dragons: Adventures in Middle-Earth" have as expected release date next october or november. By the price of 29.99 US$ it will be a cD&D 5th edition compatible series for Tolkien setting (but we already knew that part).
Can I put the link to pre-order here?
According CoolStuffInc website, "Dungeons & Dragons: Adventures in Middle-Earth" have as expected release date next october or november. By the price of 29.99 US$ it will be a cD&D 5th edition compatible series for Tolkien setting (but we already knew that part).
Can I put the link to pre-order here?
Hail!
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
Adventures in Middle-Earth (weirdly not Middle-earth, though I often spell it that way too) seems to be at least a little bit confirmed, based on a C7 employee's sig-line on another forum.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.
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This space intentionally blank.
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
That's cool. I am still hoping for the PDF next week.Eli wrote:Well, maybe bot an update but. . .
According CoolStuffInc website, "Dungeons & Dragons: Adventures in Middle-Earth" have as expected release date next october or november. By the price of 29.99 US$ it will be a cD&D 5th edition compatible series for Tolkien setting (but we already knew that part).
Can I put the link to pre-order here?
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
Yeah but maybe bringing in those stats will make some people not buy the book so those missing purchases will make it less successful. This is a futile mind game as long as we don´t know how many people will do this and do that.Glorelendil wrote:Oh, I agree. I don't want to "tackle" Sauron or Melkor or whoever, and stats for those figures are wasted page-inches, in my opinion. But maybe those page inches are what other people want. Other people whose purchases will help make this successful.Hyperion wrote:How will I know at a con or in a (changing) online group? Will there be badges stating "I won´t kill Galdriel"?Glorelendil wrote:...or you could simply play with people who won't do that.
Sadly not everybody in the world has the luxury of playing with the same people again and again.
IF one absolutely needs a D&D ME, why not just keep in the spirit of ME and keep some forces to great (and distant) for players to tackle?
Guess what? If you play a D&D game at a Con you are going to be at a table with strangers who like D&D. Even if the setting is Middle Earth they might try to play it like a D&D game, whether or not Sauron has stats. So if that playstyle is so repulsive to you, you should probably avoid playing that game at a Con. Maybe find a nice TOR table instead. (And possibly *still* encounter players who want to steal the ring from Bilbo, blab to the White Council about Elrond, and loot Orcrist from Thorin's tomb.)
Whatever. Anyone who wants to waste neurons being offended by Gandalf stats is free to do so.
Also I might not be able to find a "nice TOR table" in the future as easily as you think I might. With D&D ME I am of a mind that might have to do with how big the con is as I still think that quite a few TOR players will jump bandwagon to D&D ME and TOR will be less played after D&D ME surfaces. So smaller cons might not sport any "nice TOR group" anymore (if there´s not enough interest). Maybe not a problem in the US, don´t know.
Other than that: you asked why people dread these stats. I tried to explain. Other people want them. I´d like to know why they need stats for Sauron, Gandalf or Tom Bombadil (I´d really like to understand it).
I´m not certain why this makes you feel the need to lecture me along the lines: you play with the wrong people/do not play there and there/etc. as you do know nothing about my situation. But as there seems to be only one correct way to see this (yours: no problem with statting them) and everybody with a different mind just needs to get his shit together, I´ll make sure to submit to The One Opinion in the future.
Last edited by Hyperion on Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
I´ve got no real problem with Beorn being statted as he´s still a mortal. He´s a mighty mortal but still mortal. So I can see how you´d compare players and other NPC against them.Rich H wrote: It's interesting... I quite like seeing 'statblocks' of famous NPCs and don't infer from them that they are meant to be fought. The reason I like seeing them is that they provide me with a working parameter of what the capabilities are for the most famous denizens of Middle Earth and therefore give me a guide as to how other NPCs (and indeed the PCs) should compare. For instance, I like how Beorn is fully statted within the main rulebook of TOR, and would like to see more characters like that as we get to see the specific 'abilities/virtues' such characters would have.
I don´t like Elflords, Malarm Valar or unknown entities (Bombadil) being statted for two reasons:
1. let´s keep a bit of mystery, especially with ME canon not even Gandalf knows for sure how he compares to many of the other great forces of the world ("There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured.") Probably not even Toklien knew.
2. I have experienced too often that once stated a player will see the stats in some book and goes all "Hm......that´s Gandalf? I think I can take him......let´s kill the bugger and see what stuff he has". And 4-6 high level PC probably can (especially in D&D what with the power surge there). Sure as GM you can simply buff these chars but you might well have discussions and grief. Why go there in the first place?
If it´s not statted players are in the unknown and usually hold back as they do not know what´s coming at em (and if they give it a go the DM can usually just whip their asses with whatever comes to mind......as it should be in ME imo as no player SHOULD be able to take on Gandalf or Sauron or Galadriel or Saruman no matter how experienced.). I have found this attitude in D&D (or Pathfinder) gamers more than say Vampire or Cthulhu or even Shadowrun because in D&D things have always been statted up to gods and with the typical power-surge of D&D high level PCs finally a group of 6 of em HAVE the ability to kill Elminster or Zeus or Iuz or Mystra or whoever while in Vampire no PC will kill Caine or Lasombra, in Cthulhu no PC will kill the King In Yellow and in Shadowrun no PC will kill Lofwyr simply because they are not statted and so PCs can´t compare.
Please mind, I don´t think your point is wrong or stupid or anything. I accept the reasoning behind it. Just not sure why´d you feel the need to KNOW what stats say Gandalf has. There are only two other wizards left (Radagast and Saruman) so who would you want to compare with Gandalf? Even if the missing two (blue) wizards would resurface again.......why would you need to exactly KNOW whether they´re stronger than Gandalf or weaker?
Beorn I can understand, or Dain Ironfoot or even the Woodland King.
Again......if they are statted in the end, they´ll be. Nothing I could do about it. But imo those 4 or 5 pages could be used better.
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
I don't *need* to know the stats for them but how such individuals are represented within the TOR rules (or D&D 5e for that matter) is something that I'd be interested in from an intellectual and system design perspective. I can see how you don't like to see them because you think that's a green light to players trying to kill 'em and take their stuff, but I don't play with such players so don't have that kind of problem.Hyperion wrote:Please mind, I don´t think your point is wrong or stupid or anything. I accept the reasoning behind it. Just not sure why´d you feel the need to KNOW what stats say Gandalf has.
Last edited by Rich H on Tue Jul 26, 2016 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885
Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885
Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318
Re: DnD® comes to Middle-earth®.
That's something I'd like to see more of. We're teased with some of Radagast's boons within TfW and it would be great to see similar things expanded and applied across a range of characters - whether those be potions, spells, abilities, etc.Glorelendil wrote:Maybe there could even be a list of special abilities for good guys, not just Adversaries. Imagine Glorfindel, for example, a few abilities that bolster/protect nearby Player-heroes.
That would give the LM some guidelines for how to involve powerful LMC's in ways other than "While you fight the 6 orcs, Glorfindel solos a few dozen of them...."
Last edited by Rich H on Tue Jul 26, 2016 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885
Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885
Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318
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