Hound of Mirkwood again

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Hi,

I'm looking at running Ruins of the North soon, and was thinking about the Hound (which of course a Woodman has with the Harass ability). Do people think it is too strong an ability, or is it fine? When I was running Wilderland before it did seem a bit too much, in that everything was weaker against the Woodman, plus it gives extra hope (I think), plus it can take a hit for you and it can be healed up for the next fight, with a TN 16 roll.

I've seen a couple of suggestions in this thread here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4979&hilit=hound+of ... d&start=17, namely that the Hound cannot Harass an enemy with "Thing of Terror" ability, and another suggestion that the Hound cannot Harass an enemy whose Ability Level is > Woodsman's Valour. How do these work out in practise?

I was thinking myself of saying that the Hound's Harass ability doesn't affect defences, only attacks, so the opponent isn't counted as Weary for the purposes of Parry or Protection rolls. Any thoughts on that?

[zedturtle]

I've had one player with a faux-Hound for a while and another player who just got one. I don't think they're too powerful, but they are one of the more effective abilities in the game. The answer is, I believe, to challenge that hero in other ways.

But those limits sound reasonable.

[Corvo]

I have no strong opinion of this matter, so I'm not trying to persuade you on a course or another.
But keep in mind that Woodmen aren't strong melee fighters, in my experience. They got great parry, sure, but...
Low body, low endurance, no Virtue that gives extra endurance or damage, no killer reward (for melee).
The hound is the best asset for a Woodman in melee, and it's pretty unreliable at this: every attack got 1 chance on 12 to take it out.

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Ok, good replies - thanks. I think I'll leave the Hound as written for now and see if it needs a tweak later on.

BTW, from the wording of the ability, it seems to me that the Hound only makes the opponent Weary-equivalent for the Woodsman, not for other PCs (if they are able to get more than one PC in melee against it).

[Falenthal]

When you are fighting alongside your animal companion,
your immediate adversary in close combat is always
considered to be Weary.

The consideration that the Weary effect is only applied to the Woodman is very interesting. I've always considered that the adversary is Weary for everyone, but I can see this other way of handling the hound.

Let's see what others think about it.

[Deadmanwalking]

Random bit of pedantry, but technically the Hound, if injured, is out for the remainder of the session, not just the fight.

Not a huge deal, but relevant, and an existing limitation of the Hound's abilities.

[Rich H]

Keep in mind that Woodmen aren't strong melee fighters, in my experience. They got great parry, sure, but... Low body, low endurance, no Virtue that gives extra endurance or damage, no killer reward (for melee).
The hound is the best asset for a Woodman in melee, and it's pretty unreliable at this: every attack got 1 chance on 12 to take it out.

I think this is an extremely important point and always why character abilities (whetherthey be skill rating spreads, Endurance, Hope, Virtues, Rewards, etc) should be considered as a whole rather than simply in isolation. Francesco often 'balances' each Culture across numerous elements so it's dangerous to nerf one advantage as thay may have been created due to the shortcomings of the culture in question in other areas.

[d(sqrt(-1))]

Last night we tried a few things out to check the changes to the new edition and also to remind ourselves how the rules work, as we haven't played since the revised rules came out. So we tried a journey (Beorn's house to Rivendell), and then a combat, 4 PCs vs two Hill Trolls. The PCs have about 30 XP spent each after going through Tales from Wilderland. I think the Dwarf is saving up to get Mattock 5(!).

I decided to just run the Woodsman with the standard rules and it seemed fine. The Hound did have an effect on one hit from a Troll in that it caused it to miss due to rolling some 2s, which became zeros.

The party of 4 managed to take down the two trolls, suffering a fair bit of endurance loss but no wounds. A Barding with a Fell, Grevious bow did lots of damage (base 9, damage 5, so usually 14 per hit given her bow skill). The Dwarf did take a nasty hit from Claw (19 end) + Crush (from Savage Assault) for a further 7. As the Dwarf took knockback on the first hit to reduce the damage taken to 9, I figured that he couldn't do it again on the Crush/Kerb stomp damage. The trolls were ok as long as they had Hate to spend on Hideous Toughness, reducing most damage down to single figures.

[Majestic]

I've found the Hound to be very strong (one of the better abilities), and seems to be most effective when the Fellowship is fighting less adversaries than the party (like when they're fighting a single Troll). But the Hound didn't last long when they went up against a bunch of Hunter Spiders, and was taken out fairly early in the fight, reducing that particular Woodsman character substantially.

[Falenthal]

I've found the Hound to be very strong ... But the Hound didn't last long when they went up against a bunch of Hunter Spiders, ... reducing that particular Woodsman character substantially.

Very good point, Majestic!

Yes, the hound is maybe stronger than other Virtues, but is also one of the few that can be lost. At least for the remainder of a session/adventure.

Maybe Twice-baked Honey Cakes should learn from the Hound... Apply the TN reduction for Fatigue tests only to a number of tests equal to the Beorning's Wisdom/Valour during a session or adventure?