[Ideas/Discussion] Visiting Rohan and Saruman (c. 2950)

[zedturtle]

No worries; I had cause myself to be looking at it recently.

[Otaku-sempai]

According to HLoR, the meeting of the White Council in 2953 was held in Rivendell.

My understanding is that all meetings of the White Council (and the Council of the Wise of the Second Age) were held in Rivendell with the possible exception of the White Council of 2941--unless the Council held the meeting during the time that the Company of Thorin was at Imladris and agreed to muster elsewhere (Lothlórien?) later in the summer. I have a hard time believing that Gandalf would journey from the edge of Mirkwood back over the Misty Mountains only to return for the assault on Dol Guldur, especially with the goblins near the High Pass worked up over the death of their leader.

[SirGalrim]

How did this go Rich? Any changes you made while playing, or would make if you ran it again?

[Rich H]

As is often the case with my group, we didn't get any further than doing the Preliminary Travel rolls! I distracted them with both Radagast and Gandalf so it was sorta my fault.

We're now on a break for a couple of weeks while one of the players in on holiday (I don't like running the game when anyone is away) so will be starting the journey to Rohan and Isengard towards the end of this month. Will let you know what I end up doing though.

[Yinkin]

In 2950 Fengel is 80 years old. Old and cranky. I imagine him being a manipulative bastard, clever but greedy and selfish. How else could he have stayed king for almost 50 years?

I think one thing that can convey the state of Rohan at the end of Fengel's reign is to show a lack of unity. No one likes Fengel apart from his sycophants and those that enrich themselves in his service. They might meet rohirrim discouraging them of going to Edoras, and others saying they must. They might get roped into local conflicts between chiefs since they are outsiders and therefore outside the law of the Mark.

(Non-canon: In my headcanon of Riddersmark of this era, the rohirrim are divided. In the Westfold Folcswidh, Fengel's elder sister is king (queen), and in Aldburg and the Eastfold Ethelred rules, whose grandchild will be Éomund, father of Éomer and Éowyn. Fengel mostly rules over Edoras and environs, and of course, in the eye of Gondor he is the lawful king. The eorlingas have a looser definition of kingship, I imagine. Inspired by the old germanic traditions that inspired the Rohirrim in the first place.)

[SirGalrim]

In a few days I am running an adventure very similar to what Rich described. The year is 2950. Last spring the heroes went to Dimmwerhorn, baerly spotted the chain and heard some creepy figuers having evil plans for Wilderland. They reported this to Radagast. This spring Radagast called for the heroes to investigate Dol Guldur. It was an adventure based of "Secret's Buried", but with more focus on finding information about the shadow creature who attacked Irimë and possible was residing in Dwimmerhorn, and mainly information about the Chain of Thangorodrim. There was also some pieces of the information about defences in Lake-town and Dale. But I toned down the spy report from Elvenking's Hall as this is not focus for this campaign. Anyway the heroes actually successfully made it out of Dol Guldur and where not calmed by the information they found. Radagast mumbled that this information bust be taken to the Wise. Saruman would know what to do. And before he had finish his mumbling sentence one of the heroes where volunteering to bring the message to Saurman. So without more nudging from me they will travel south in the next adventure. There is to much I want the players to see in Rohan that we can do it all. I do not know what path they will choose to take. But I am in need of some tips and input.

Fengel is king still. how hostile is he to foreigners? Do people outside Rohan know that you have to have permission to travel trough the lands? Do they know that Fengel can be difficult to deal with?

In the book it gives advice for a Hobbit to dress like a dwarf to not be recognized. Isn't it better to dress like a boy? How will the Hobbit think of this? Should other travellers advice him to do so? This seems very forced just to stick with canon. As a group we try to stick to canon, but not when it dosen't make sense from the perspective of the character. Any ideas for a better approach here?

How to the people in Rohan in general perceive travellers/adventurers. Will there be a lot of commotion because of the dwarf in the group?

I am thinking they will meet Rohirim that demand the group to go to Edoras to present themselves, while there will be other who recommend them to take a different path. Maybe Esmund, son of Edwin, will be on the plains and give the heroes leave to travel the lands if the impress him. At if they have a hazard later they may beet other Rohirrim questioning this.

[Finrod Felagund]

"Fengel is king still. how hostile is he to foreigners? Do people outside Rohan know that you have to have permission to travel trough the lands? Do they know that Fengel can be difficult to deal with?"

Certainly the Rohirrim will pick up your Adventurers and take them to Fengel. Maybe you could have Radagast warn them that "rumour says that all is not well in Rohan" which might give them an inkling that they need to be careful. They are passing through on legitimate business from one Wizard to another so I'm sure that whilst Fengel will want to question them, he will let them go unless they do something really foolish.

"In the book it gives advice for a Hobbit to dress like a dwarf to not be recognized. Isn't it better to dress like a boy? How will the Hobbit think of this? Should other travellers advice him to do so? This seems very forced just to stick with canon. As a group we try to stick to canon, but not when it dosen't make sense from the perspective of the character. Any ideas for a better approach here?"

If there's no reason why the Hobbit should dress up then forget about canon. You could argue that he or she will only meet a few Rohirrim in private sessions and it might be forgotten by Théoden's time. If there is a reason for him to dress up, then have him do so as a girl (might be fun for your group!)

"How to the people in Rohan in general perceive travellers/adventurers. Will there be a lot of commotion because of the dwarf in the group?"

My take is that they are like Eomer; very suspicious but also honourable at heart. They will also be well aware of Dwarves - if anything an Elf might attract more attention. The Adventurers will be brought to see Fengel I'm sure, but as per my first answer it should be OK

I am thinking they will meet Rohirim that demand the group to go to Edoras to present themselves, while there will be other who recommend them to take a different path. Maybe Esmund, son of Edwin, will be on the plains and give the heroes leave to travel the lands if the impress him. At if they have a hazard later they may beet other Rohirrim questioning this.

Yep that could work. Or they could meet an NPC who hates Fengel and asked to become part of a plot. You could have them arrested if they exceed Fengel's tolerance (like to be really low) - I've always thought a jail break game set in Edoras could be fun.

Hope that helps.

[SirGalrim]

"Fengel is king still. how hostile is he to foreigners? Do people outside Rohan know that you have to have permission to travel trough the lands? Do they know that Fengel can be difficult to deal with?"

Certainly the Rohirrim will pick up your Adventurers and take them to Fengel. Maybe you could have Radagast warn them that "rumour says that all is not well in Rohan" which might give them an inkling that they need to be careful. They are passing through on legitimate business from one Wizard to another so I'm sure that whilst Fengel will want to question them, he will let them go unless they do something really foolish.

Thank you! Very interesting suggestions. how do you deem the relationship between Fengel and Saruman at the end of Fengel's reign?

[Finrod Felagund]

"Fengel is king still. how hostile is he to foreigners? Do people outside Rohan know that you have to have permission to travel trough the lands? Do they know that Fengel can be difficult to deal with?"

Certainly the Rohirrim will pick up your Adventurers and take them to Fengel. Maybe you could have Radagast warn them that "rumour says that all is not well in Rohan" which might give them an inkling that they need to be careful. They are passing through on legitimate business from one Wizard to another so I'm sure that whilst Fengel will want to question them, he will let them go unless they do something really foolish.

Thank you! Very interesting suggestions. how do you deem the relationship between Fengel and Saruman at the end of Fengel's reign?

According to the Horse Lords module it's good. Saruman doesn't declare himself to be Lord of Isengard until Thengel ascends the Throne and even then all is OK. Fengel probably sees Saruman as a wise and mighty friend, whilst Saruman publicly values Fengel, but in private sees him as a poor dupe "What is the House of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek". I get the impression from most posts on this thread that the players shouldn't realise anything is wrong at this point in time.

IMO the problem Fengel has is with his own people, and whether the Adventurers get caught up in some of that conflict.

[Elmoth]

Dunno your `players, but my troupe always gets caught by meeting important historical figures in passing. All my players still remember fondly how they fought some orcs in the fords of Issen with a your Theoden, and how a lieutenant of his called Grimma put them in some dire straits just for the sakes of it. Another saga time (and another game as well), but this is the kind of stuff that they recall years after it has happened.

Here, meeting a young 3 year old theoden riding a ponny around a settlement might spark their imagination (even if it is not cannon as he was living away at the time). Or some other stuff like that.