[Ideas/Discussion] Visiting Rohan and Saruman (c. 2950)

[Rich H]

*** IF YOU'RE A PLAYER AND DON'T WANT TO READ ANY SPOILERS ABOUT ROHAN AND THE WHITE WIZARD THEN DON'T READ ANY FURTHER!!! ***

So, my campaign has got to the stage where the PCs went to the Dwimmerhorn and saw the Chain of Thangorodrim. Not knowing what it is, but wanting to find out, I thought I'd expand on the advice in the adventure; and rather than make it an Undertaking to research it, I would have Radagast suggest to the PCs that they travel to Saruman and request his help on the matter. I also figure this would be a good way of introducing at least some of the excellent "Horse Lords of Rohan" content as its unlikely I'll ever get around to running a campaign set there although I'd love to - there's something inspiring about golden-haired warriors singing and riding into battle, isn't there.

Anyway... I thought I'd suggest what I'm thinking of doing but also would be happy for others to suggest some additional elements in order to improve my current, outlined, plans.

Some points to consider:

Meeting the King
The adventure is going to take place towards the end of Fengel's reign, three years or thereabouts, so I wanted to have this be a nice piece of detail of his rule compared to those of Thengel and Theoden, should the players ever return.

The obvious way I can see of introducing the greed and laziness of Fengel would be for the PCs having to visit Edoras in order to introduce themselves and ask the King for permission to travel through his lands. He'd obviously expect gifts and the encounter with him would deteriorate should he not receive anything, or even something not appropriate to his status, and would really mess with the players preconception of Rohan (in a good way).

I had an idea that the merchant Goldred would suggest the PCs pay him to introduce them in court, for a price, which would add to the theme of greed etc.

Can anyone think of any other way of introducing this or interesting bits to add to such an ancounter? Are the court aware that the King's reign is coming to an end (is he wracked by ill-health) or will it come as a surprise, albeit not out-of-the blue considering his age?

Saruman Disguised
It's referred to in HLoR that Saruman oft-knows when he is to receive guests well before they arrive and that he takes different forms, even that of Radagast or Gandalf, so I wanted Saruman to accompany the PCs at least some of the way on their journey to Isengard. I was thinking that if they visited Fengel in Edoras then Saruman could be disguised as a merchant/tinker who'd accompany them and perhaps other traders. He's be able to spy on the PCs and even, perhaps, get them to talk about the White Wizard while their guard is down - not that it matters much, as his abilities mean he can get people saying more than they want to anyway!

Better ideas for this, perhaps?

Isengard
Saruman is still 'merely' the caretaker of Isengard. As he has generations of men working for him I'm not going to make any alterations to what is detailed in HLoR; making a point of how the woods and the walled ring are filled with wildlife, gardens, and trees in abundance. The gates will be under guard and the PCs will be escorted to the Wizard. I don't see this as being something recent or something that comes into play as Saruman falls to corruption; he's always been like this.

Anything you'd throw in here?

Meeting Saruman
I think the book suggests that the Wizard should receive them from the lower balcony but it feels right that he invite them inside, at least to the hall beyond the entrance. Not just from a point-of-view that these are the player-heroes but also considering all the information he will 'willingly' extract from them with regards to their adventures and (assuming they are courteous and respectful) provide them with lore relating to the chain they spied. In addition, they will have to take Saruman as a Patron. Already having Radagast as one, this could create some interesting dynamics for the PCs to deal with but this would not be immediate.

Does this feel right to others? Anything to add?

Miscellaneous
1) Must get them to travel along the borders of Fangorn - perhaps they hear something large in the forest one night while camping?

2) Introduce The Wold and the Field of Celebrant - perhaps best to do one as they travel south and the other as they leave? Was thinking the Wold on the way out, purely because it would be nice for someone to mention that Saruman oft-travelled the land in disguise or would such a rumour be too early to use?

... Anything else?

[SirGalrim]

This is an very interesting idea. I might do the same in my campaign as we are at the same time frame in Tales from Wilderland. Very interested to see what comes out of this thread.

[Finrod Felagund]

Meeting the King - Maybe a "shakedown" by Fengel's guards, or even being thrown into jail for not offering the right presents to guards/minor functionaries.

Saruman disguised - On the one hand he's intensely arrogant so I struggle to imagine him bothering to disguise himself, but on the other he's capable of small mean-minded trickery. Maybe he's coming back from a spying mission, falls in with the adventurers, and wants to test them? Or as the adventurers head through the Gladden Fields, they see some digging, report this to Saruman, and thus begin his interest in finding TOR?

Isengard - I find it hard to imagine him being patient with a bunch of flowers and gardens and all that useless rubbish for too long, so maybe he's already begun to make some "improvements" with some tall chimneys sticking out above the trees, or some of the land being used for intensive cultivation. Maybe just a few small cues that something is a bit "off".

Meeting Saruman - You're right, definitely indoors in a room that will impress the adventurers. Maybe he'll want something such as to find Isildur's remains for instance, or for the adventurers to become his spies in the Wilderland.

Miscellaneous - If you're into singing Warriors, why not have the adventurers accompany the Eored stationed in the Wold to defeat some Orc horse thieves? A bit warry but good dramatic stuff!

[Rich H]

Meeting the King - Maybe a "shakedown" by Fengel's guards, or even being thrown into jail for not offering the right presents to guards/minor functionaries.

I was thinking they could be thrown out if it became apparent they brought no gifts for Fengel, which is likely, but this would mean them travelling the rest of the way to Isengard without his leave. It could make the rest of the journey quite interesting if they were recognised. Although they would likely outdistance the news getting to Saruman, spending time there, would mean that such news may have carried further.

Saruman disguised - On the one hand he's intensely arrogant so I struggle to imagine him bothering to disguise himself, but on the other he's capable of small mean-minded trickery. Maybe he's coming back from a spying mission, falls in with the adventurers, and wants to test them? Or as the adventurers head through the Gladden Fields, they see some digging, report this to Saruman, and thus begin his interest in finding TOR?

I've already introduced "Arciryas, Servant of Saruman" from HotW, whose pretty much doing this. When the PCs declared they were on an errand for Radagast he told them he was one of Saruman's servants. I was thinking that if they ever revisited the White Wizard at a later date (likely as he'd be their Patron) then they could have a chance of spotting him there, perhaps in prison or demoted in rank, for sharing with the players who he worked for - Saruman requires secrecy from his followers.

Isengard - I find it hard to imagine him being patient with a bunch of flowers and gardens and all that useless rubbish for too long, so maybe he's already begun to make some "improvements" with some tall chimneys sticking out above the trees, or some of the land being used for intensive cultivation. Maybe just a few small cues that something is a bit "off".

Hmmm, I'm not sure. In 2949/2950 he is still caretaker of Orthanc and I also want the PCs to see Rohan at a low ebb and Isengard, in contrast, as a place of high learning, solitude, and great beauty.

Meeting Saruman - You're right, definitely indoors in a room that will impress the adventurers. Maybe he'll want something such as to find Isildur's remains for instance, or for the adventurers to become his spies in the Wilderland.

The book does state that PCs have to take him as a Patron so this will happen to some degree. I think giving them a task within Wilderland, to test their competence, would be in keeping. He could even demand they capture and bring him the Chain of Thangorodrim, considering the nature of their visit.

Miscellaneous - If you're into singing Warriors, why not have the adventurers accompany the Eored stationed in the Wold to defeat some Orc horse thieves? A bit warry but good dramatic stuff!

I quite like that. And using this at the beginning of the adventure, and assuming they successfully help the Rohirrim, could give them at least a little leeway with Fengel for bringing no gifts; "Begone! Take your leave of me and go fawn at the feet of the White Wizard, but trouble me with your miserly presence no more; Wanderers from the North!"

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Anyone else have any ideas?

[Rich H]

Nothing else from anyone?

[zedturtle]

I like Finrod's idea about meeting the Rohirrim in the Wold, it'd be a nice entrance. It'd be neat if they've (like Éomer so many years later) lost some Riders and have some spare horses. Then you get a nice encounter as they try to convince the Rohirrim to let the company ride with them in pursuit of the orcs. Of course, the less-Athletic ones might be better off dismounting when it comes to actual battle.

Encountering Fengel sounds pretty good. I'd probably make a real mechanical cost to it... every point of Treasure given increases Tolerance by one, that sort of thing.

I completely disagree with Finrod about the current (2950) state of Orthanc. It's true that the later (real-world time) Tolkien wrote, the earlier (fictional time-line) Saruman became corrupt, but I think it's important to show the heroes a little bit of why Saruman's influence could have lasted so long and having Isengard being a more moral place in 2950 presages the reversal that will happen in later years.

[Rich H]

I was going to have them get in on a battle around the fields of Celebrant, in media res if you will, aiding an unhorsed Rohirrim that is a little isolated from the rest of the main force. Then they'd return with them to Edoras, riding of course; that way they can take in the sights, sounds and air of the land of Rohan in relative comfort. I thought this would be a good juxtaposition to then having the disappointment of meeting Fengel but also give them enough clues to realise that Rohan is still a great country just burdened with a bad king.

Increasing Tolerance with Treasure is a good idea.

Agree with you about Orthanc; I mentioned above that I'd prefer to have the change take place with each visit of the PCs so they experience its decline. With that in mind I think it's vital that they get to see it in all its glory.

Going to use some of the cool new Hazards out of JaM tonight as well, if I get the chance.

[bluejay]

Hey Rich, coming in late on this as I was away and didn't have reliable Internet access.

One thing that comes to mind is that the last meeting of the White Council is held in 2953. As it is highly unlikely that this was held at Orthanc it means that Saruman must leave there for at least a few weeks. I assume the council is held at Rivendell although I couldn't find any info regarding the location.

This leaves a few opportunities here for the fellowship. If the council is held in Rivendell then surely Saruman would use this opportunity to meet with his spies in Eriador. Any fellowship members who have Saruman as a patron may be asked to accompany him and given small seemingly beneficial tasks to carry out. Alternatively we now have a period of time where Orthanc is without its master. From the literature, Saruman has no second in command of any worth to manage in his stead. Is Orthanc simply locked? How is Isengard maintained in his absence? It seems a perfect time of disruption for a wily fellowship to spy out the place. It seems very likely that Saruman would leave some element of spying around in addition to his loyal retainers. Alternatively perhaps his absence is not made public. In one version of The Hunt for the Ring in Unfinished Tales he makes his voice come from the main gate of Isengard. Perhaps he could use a similar trick to pretend that he was still in residence?

Anyway just a few suggestions.

[zedturtle]

According to HLoR, the meeting of the White Council in 2953 was held in Rivendell.

[bluejay]

Ah thanks Zedturtle. You know I didn't think to look there!