Will C7 cover all the canonical peoples?

[zedturtle]

Yep... Other games in Middle-earth have had a lot more character options, and (I think) suffered for it. Give me a small chunk of the world, give me heroes to inhabit it and interesting things to do and places to see.

Of course, there's some truth to the idea that we already have a bunch of sourcebooks for Middle-earth. But more than one person has struggled to lift adventures out of the corpus. C7 has done a great job of providing the right amount of information and appropriate invention/expansion to make running games in ME much easier than than I found in those other games.

[zedturtle]

And so you don't feel too beat upon: I do think your passion and your knowledge is to be commended. You've raised lots of interesting things in this thread, and we don't know yet what tack D&DME will take.

[Middle-earth Way]

I see those things as being contradictory: a single $40 book that also has rules and adversaries and artwork that tries to address each of those lands is going to end up having a very short entry for each.

Look, the main thing is that the book includes a 5E Culture (i.e. a D&D "Race") for each of the key peoples of the entire West-lands. That would be a satisfactory foundation for me. Cultures in D&D don't take up much page space--not as much as classes. I'm not talking about a national almanac for each country.

At least these:

• Shire-hobbit
• Longbeard Dwarf
• Grey Elf (the Elves choose a particular Homeland which forms part of their "racial/cultural" package: Lindon, the Wandering Companies of Eriador, Rivendell, Lorien, or the Woodland Realm)
• Silvan Elf
  (If we're pressed for space, then High Elves could be left out of the core book's array of PC cultures, since they seem to be mostly unique figures, such as Galadriel. Similar in stature to the Istari.)
• Dunadan of the North
• Bree-folk (it would be funny to combine the Bree-hobbits and Bree-men into a single Culture/Race: "Bree-folk" which share a set of Bree-specific cultural traits, but which have two separate builds depending on whether the character is one of the Big Folk or Little Folk.)
• Dale-man (for the core book, Lake-men could be combined with Dale-men, but they are culturally and narratively distinct enough to warrant two Cultures, at least in a future supplement.)
• Beorning of the Upper Vales
• Woodman of Western Mirkwood, or of the Middle Vales (the Middle Vales woodmen figure prominently in one passage of The Hobbit.)
• Horse-lord of Rohan
• Hillman of Dunland
• Wose of Druadan Forest
• Man of Gondor
• Snow-man of Forochel

That's 14 playable D&D "races." The lucky number.

So okay, if we are pressed for space, I admit that the one-liner canonical peoples, which Thorin and Company or the Fellowship don't actually visit (Men of Dorwinion, Hunter-folk, Fisher-folk), and PC Cultures for the enemy Men (Southrons and Easterlings), could fit in the regional supplements.

Even if you separated out the rules in a separate book, it's still not very many column inches per land. The result? "a watered-down, vague rendition of Middle-earth" that looks like a "generic fantasy blob" because there isn't room to go into interesting detail on each one.

I'm not talking about a chapter for each country--just a PC Culture/Race write-up, which needs only a few paragraphs of explanatory text.

I mean the creation and description of interesting characters and places and plot hooks, with maps of the cities and other cool artwork.

I don't want site-maps and art in the core Worldbook. I'd rather have 14 playable Cultures/Races than maps of cities and yet another drawing of some random cool scene or character.

As for artwork...there's plenty of Tolkienian art available elsewhere...I don't need it in my RPG rulebook. (Though I like it in my adventure book, to show players what the adventure sites look like.) Just give it a beautiful cover, a handsome font, pack it full of everything needed to form a Company composed of adventurers from all of the main countries in the West-lands, and call it done.

In order to add in the colorful parts you're talking about more $40 books, except now the information for any one land is spread across several books.

"The colorful parts I'm talking about" are only Race/Culture write-ups, not regional almanacs!

I'd much rather have it organized by region. Yes, I'll be salivating to get my "The Sands of Far Harad" expansion supplement, but I'd rather wait for it than get a dry encyclopedia as the first release.

Umm...so what are you expecting in the core ME-D&D rulebook? You're hoping it just has Wilderland?

Ever seen Ptolus? If any setting deserved a Ptolus-sized effort, Middle-earth does. It would sell. A Ptolus-sized complete, juicy encyclopedic ME-D&D worldbook would make for a million-dollar Kickstarter. Probably too late though...slated for summer means the book is already put together. It is what it is. Either way, I'm interested in what C7 does. They'll do fine. My suggestions are my consumer preferences.

[Middle-earth Way]

Thanks!

You've raised lots of interesting things in this thread, and we don't know yet what tack D&DME will take.

Yes, I really wonder what the ME-D&D will look like. What a difficult and exciting task the C7 crew have taken on. Looking forward to it.

[Glorelendil]

Ah, got it. I assumed that by introducing the cultures you would also want their homelands included/described. Would seem weird to me to do it otherwise in Middle-Earth.

One thing I dislike in 5e is that so many human sub-races are mentioned, almost in passing, and we're supposed to pick one. I want to know more about the lands they come from.

[Majestic]

One thing I dislike in 5e is that so many human sub-races are mentioned, almost in passing, and we're supposed to pick one. I want to know more about the lands they come from.

Agreed. My daughter picked one of those, and I had to go to the Forgotten Realms Wiki online to find just about everything about them.

[Dalriada]

I'm not talking about a chapter for each country--just a PC Culture/Race write-up, which needs only a few paragraphs of explanatory text.

But it would be unplayable without research and/or writing.
And just like you don't pay 40$ for a corebook that doesn't include all the cultures, I don't pay 40$ for a corebook that doesn't provide all the tools needed to play a culture.
There's no right answer, it's a creative choice.

I don't want site-maps and art in the core Worldbook. I'd rather have 14 playable Cultures/Races than maps of cities and yet another drawing of some random cool scene or character.

But what's the point of having 14 cultures if you have nowhere to make them play ?!

Ever seen Ptolus? If any setting deserved a Ptolus-sized effort, Middle-earth does. It would sell. A Ptolus-sized complete, juicy encyclopedic ME-D&D worldbook would make for a million-dollar Kickstarter.

It's easy to create a Ptolus book, but it's really difficult to create a good Ptolus book.
And dangerous, because it's putting all your eggs in the same basket.
And it would be very difficult to create a mood through the book while the places and periods described would be very different thematically (I mean between Mirkwood under Bilbo, the Shire and Gondor during the war, there's few common points). I'm much more comfortable with doing small, but doing well.

[Glorelendil]

But what's the point of having 14 cultures if you have nowhere to make them play ?!

This, 100 times over.

If you assemble a bunch of 1st level adventurers from Forochel, Far Harad, Umbar, and Ithilien and have them meet in a tavern in Bree...it just doesn't feel like Tolkien.

What's their first adventure going to be, killing rats under the Prancing Pony?

[Rich H]

What's their first adventure going to be, killing rats under the Prancing Pony?

hey, leave that for when they do the Warhammer version of the rules!

[Dalriada]

hey, leave that for when they do the Warhammer version of the rules!

Now I want this Virtue for a urban culture : "small but vicious dog".