Orc tribes

[Rich H]

Orcs of Dol Guldur could have: Forest Stalker - Add +2 to parry when in forested areas.

I'll give it a think see if I can come up with something.

Do it, Poosticks, you really have a great handle on statting out creatures and opponents in general. Look forward to seeing them and once you've nailed them I'm more than happy to put together a PDF of them if necessary.

[Garn!]

Mim,
The limited opponent pool is probably related to the License agreements. My guess would be that variants of creatures known to be in the legendarium are fine. Inclusion of wholly new creatures, is possible within a reasonable expectation of their presence in similar terrain - again, that is my guess. All of which is, of course, dependent on the MEE (how much can we include?) and Estate (how much can we exclude?) review process(es).

I know I said it in the old forums, but I'll repeat it here. I think to make a Middle-earth RPG more viable one thing that is needed is additional human cultures. While it is true that the Numenorean (good and bad), as well as the later Gondorian and Arnorian, exploration and settlement displaced pre-existing human cultures and absorbed others, their are always some hold-outs - not to mention the hybrids. Tolkien himself understood and supported this idea as all of his races and cultures had such schisms. So there should, IMO, be more small, backwards, hidden cultures like the Druedain (Woses). Or they may not be hidden at all, they're just off to the side somewhere and generally avoided because they're "strange".

And I would go with Black Numenorean hybrids (half-breeds) as pure-bloods are likely to be extremely rare. Otherwise Aragorn might find himself supplanted by someone with better bloodlines. Hmm... a "Pure-blood Black Numenorean Imposter" could make a good story-arc for a Fourth Age campaign.


Francesco,
I can see that happening depending on the type of campaign you're running. In a more human-centric campaign monsters and non-human races are going to be less common. Unfortunately after D&D, and similarly marketed products, most players are used to encountering an endless parade of creatures. Tolkien is more realistic in that he inherently accounts for the biological and ecological impact such creatures would have in a "natural" environment that must sustain a balance of life forms or quickly suffer ecological collapse.

[Rich H]

At the end of my last game I realised how little my players are being exposed to non-human enemies in our current campaign. It really makes the presence/rumour/occasional confrontation with Orcs/Goblins/etc. much more meaningful.

Francesco

... And makes total sense during the period of the campaign currently covered. I'd expect, once Sauron declares and Dol Guldur is 're-opened for business', to see fouler creatures set forth along with increasing numbers of orcs.

[Mim]

Francesco,

I'm glad to see that you challenge your heroes with corrupted Men. They can be exciting & unique foes.

[Mim]

Yes, the company may labor under difficult license restrictions, more's the pity. I still hope that we see more development of Men, mundane beasts, & additional things that go bump in the dark.

Here are a couple of my fav quotes from The Silmarillion (Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor) & LOTR (The Field of Cormallen):

And in that dark time Melkor bred many other monsters of divers shapes and kinds that long troubled the world; and his realm spread now ever southward over Middle-earth.

As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and feebly die, so the creatures of Sauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves into pits, or fled wailing back to hide in holes and dark lightless places far from hope.

Note the phrase, "beast spell-enslaved." You can consider these quotes in multiple ways, but they open a number of possibilities.

Extremely rare, corrupted, slimy, tentacled, & shadowy or unnatural-looking monstrosities may have survived the fall of Morgoth or Sauron during the 1st or 2d Ages & fled into dark place of shadows & fear. The Balrog or the Watcher in the Water in Moria & Shelob are examples. They exist for a reason, however, & not just to provide cardboard props for your heroes to dismember. At any rate, you can spice things up from time-to-time with unique creatures. I love what they've done with the Secret Shadows (Vampires) & hope they continue along that line with similar rare examples of powerful foes.

[Garn!]

Mim,
Good points, which I totally agree with. They can even get away with including unique creatures in remote places since Gandalf says something similar in LoTR (Middle-earth licenses only include the Hobbit and LotR and specifically exclude Silmarillion and later works as I understand things).

This is somewhat problematic in itself though. The characters would constantly be meeting unique creatures which imply they are bosses, rather than average creatures of a specific race. TOR needs more common creatures that can be seen in multiple settings, day in and day out, without ruining Tolkien's world setting or TOR's interpretation of the ecology. Which becomes a nearly impossible task to fulfill while meeting each gamer's expectations of the setting. (It would be almost as awkward as the whole "A Magic System Is Needed" issue.)

TOR's design kind of precludes using mundane creatures like lions, tigers and bears - among all the other possibilities.

[DavetheLost]

The LM book includes wolves and great bats so more ordinary animals and beasts are not beyond possibility.
I think the Aurochs would be a fitting addition, as well as lions, bears, boars and tigers.

I think it is more the design of Tolkien's world than the design of the game that precludes heavy use of natural wildlife as foes. Heroes just don't spent a lot of time worrying about animals and natural beasts. They fight servants of the Enemy, most of whom are intelligent if corrupted beings. Men, orcs, trolls, etc.

Think about running Middle Earth as a low magic, humans only setting. It actually works pretty well. Flashy spell casters a la D&D are almost completely unknown in Middle Earth, so much so that when Gandalf uses his magic to kindle a fire he declares "I have written Gandalf is here!" There is also not the complete contents of every bestiary, mythology, and heraldic symbology spilled across the landscape for players to fight. It is not that sort of world.

Monsters should be rarer, more memorable and come at the climax of the adventure, not as sword fodder along the way. Indeed look how little actual combat there is in the two novels. Most of the time is spent journeying, talking, and reciting poetry.

[Mim]

You raise an excellent point about not meeting every player's expectations, especially where the day-to-day (or night-to-night ) foes challenge them.

That said, however, there may be exceptions & I'm not sure the game's design precludes their use (?)

For example, note the abstract development of the snakes on p. 97 of TfW:

Treacherous Footing (any Companion)
One of the companions must make an Athletics test to avoid stumbling while crossing a patch of clinging weeds. If he fails, he slips into a snake den and one of the snakes strikes at him, burying its venomous fangs in his leg...

For people who like the crunch, I'm writing an example with stats of this entry from Appendix A The Kings of the Mark of the LOTR (the Boar's offspring are still around & corrupted - it's a long story )...:

2804–64 13. Folca. He was a great hunter, but he vowed to chase no wild beast while there was an Orc left in Rohan. When the last orc-hold was found and destroyed, he went to hunt the great boar of Everholt in the Firien Wood. He slew the boar but died of the tusk-wounds that it gave him.

[Rich H]

Apart from one-off beasts I'd personally steer clear of ordinary animals. I tend to cover those off with Hunting actions, etc in order to deal with them as the PCs engage with them as a source of food!

I'd like to see more mechanical variations for men as opponents. The options that Poosticks detailed within my Additional Rules supplement are an excellent start but I'd quite like to see more official ones and maybe based around cultures (eg, Northmen, Haradrim, Black Numenoreans, etc) rather than types (eg, brigands, outlaws, etc).

Regarding 'ordinary' beasts... There are potential for others, I suppose. In addition to wolves and bats we could have:

Crows (and the more monstrous Crebain)
Great Bear
Great Boar
Great Cat (I think there's something called the Chetmig in MERP)
Glutani (a psychotic badger-like creature in MERP - killed my hobbit PC Frendel!)
White Stag (although I think I'd still handle that with Hunting actions)

[Mim]

Yes, this is a solid list Rich & these creatures can be a great addition to any game. I'm considering using the RAW for Gore-crows to cover crebain, but I'm not sold on it yet. You raise a good point about using the others for Hunting or similar rolls, though it's probably more a matter of personal preference & I prefer to spice them up a bit to add flavor to hazards:)

I agree about developing additional Men based upon their cultures-vice-types. The Easterlings in Those Who Tarry No Longer in TfW are a good start on how to introduce Men of the Shadow.