Double Specialized

[Stormcrow]

I believe I said that.

[Rich H]

I believe I said that.

... Then take a metaphorical bow!

[Angelalex242]

Yes, I'm a munchkin, no, I'm not ashamed about it. I like to WIN. When I play a video game, I level to 99 even if the game can be beaten at level 40. Why? Because I'm not satisfied with mere victory. I like DOMINATION of my enemies. People like me exist in the world. It is a fact that should be accepted and dealt with.

If that doesn't please you...well, I'm not here to please you.

The premise of the OP question is when two traits or two specialties can be used on a single action, what kind of bonuses are fair to make redundancies more powerful?

That is, were this AD&D 3.5, I'm looking to stack modifiers for feats to get a higher skill roll. Make no mistake...I am trying to stack things, whether you intended them to be or not.

[Rich H]

Yes, I'm a munchkin, no, I'm not ashamed about it. I like to WIN. When I play a video game, I level to 99 even if the game can be beaten at level 40. Why? Because I'm not satisfied with mere victory. I like DOMINATION of my enemies. People like me exist in the world. It is a fact that should be accepted and dealt with.

If that doesn't please you...well, I'm not here to please you.

... And TOR isn't about WINNING nor is it about munchkin play nor is it a video game. If that doesn't please you then the game isn't going to scratch those itches for you and you should leave them at the door as TOR isn't built to deliver that kind of play experience. If you can't engage something on its terms then it's often better to find a game better suited to your needs; sounds like this could be the case with TOR for you reading this thread and your comments in other ones. Personally, I enjoy different games in different ways. I prefer certain styles of play but I do try and play a game in the spirit that it was designed to be played - I find I get the most out of it that way and learn new things. I'd recommend you try the same, if you haven't already done so - you could be pleasantly surprised!

The premise of the OP question is when two traits or two specialties can be used on a single action, what kind of bonuses are fair to make redundancies more powerful?

So, we've pretty much answered you; there is no rule and there shouldn't really be as that's isn't what the game is about, including (in fact, especially) Traits.

That is, were this AD&D 3.5, I'm looking to stack modifiers for feats to get a higher skill roll. Make no mistake...I am trying to stack things, whether you intended them to be or not.

TOR isn't D&D3.5. Thank Christ. If you want such a game then it's often best to play such a game as that is what such games are designed to do. TOR isn't one of those games *but* engage and play it in the way it's been designed and it sings. It's a gorgeous system and I really think you need to resist "beating" it and just enjoy it in a different way.

[Angelalex242]

That is fair. I'll simply make certain to never take redundant traits then, as I was looking for something like 'two applicable traits raise success levels from normal to great, and great to extraordinary. If you have /three/ redundant traits, all successes are extraordinary.

I've thus far favored a Swift/Quick of Hearing combo anyway (which have no redundancies whatever)

[Rich H]

That is fair. I'll simply make certain to never take redundant traits then, as I was looking for something like 'two applicable traits raise success levels from normal to great, and great to extraordinary. If you have /three/ redundant traits, all successes are extraordinary.

You could house rule it but I wouldn't, personally. I believe traits are more about bringing the character to life in interesting ways rather than improving success results. In the AB it actually states on page 95 "... the advantages conferred by Traits aren't powerful enough to unbalance the game..."; if you house ruled the above then I think they'd be bringing 'too much to the table' and could prove problematic.

[Corvo]

Yes, I'm a munchkin, no, I'm not ashamed about it. I like to WIN. When I play a video game, I level to 99 even if the game can be beaten at level 40. Why? Because I'm not satisfied with mere victory. I like DOMINATION of my enemies. People like me exist in the world. It is a fact that should be accepted and dealt with.

If that doesn't please you...well, I'm not here to please you.
(...)

Ok, take 2 Shadow points

Sorry AngelaLex, I cannot resist. Take it in good spirit

Just to pay my 2 c. to the OT, no, traits don't stack in this game. You can think about it as a way to encourage diversification. But if you really want to houserule it, having them grant a Great auto success is probably the safest solution (the whole "gimme an advancement point" is more dangerous to tinker about).

[Ferretz]

I'm no munchkin, but I feel that the mentioned Lordly, Fair-spoken character should handle a situation where these Traits are useful better than one who's not only Fair-spoken.

But as mentioned, Heart of the Wild handles this quite nicely with the Fellowship Undertakings that grants temporary Traits.

The character in question could, for instance, get an automatic success AND an Advancement Point for the same skill check.

E.

[Rich H]

I'm no munchkin, but I feel that the mentioned Lordly, Fair-spoken character should handle a situation where these Traits are useful better than one who's not only Fair-spoken.

From my perspective such a character just gets more opportunity in the game to apply such traits in social situations... For example the Lordly and Fair-spoken character would use the former to Inspire or Awe others, whereas the latter would be applied in situations involving Courtesy. Therefore from this you can see that a character with both traits would be extremely useful within an Encounter where such elements came into play and a character without Fair-spoken wouldn't be as useful in situations involving courtesy (obviously assuming such characters had the same ratings in their common skills).

I do not see the two as 'stacking' but as having potential overlaps to get to the same outcome but by different paths - a character picks the one most suitable for the situation.