There and back again?

[Butterfingers]

Hi folks, a new member here. Started loremastering TOR just now, and trying to learn the ropes. I have the slipcase edition - have had it for years, but we never got around playing it, except the other day we had nothing prepared for our other games, so I suggested we make characters and have a go.

Most likely reason we never got around playing TOR before is that it was new and we already have a bunch of games going (MERP and LOTR among them on and off). Better late than never, right? In addition to the rulebooks, I purchased the GM screen & Laketown from LGS that still has it, and Erebor. I figure if we continue playing, I will get The Darkening of MW, Heart of the Wild, Tales from Wilderland, Journeys & Maps and Rivendell (since it seems to have interesting new rules about magical treasure etc.)... I think? A lot depends how enthusiastic my players are.

We've started on the Marsh Bell adventure from the rulebook. Yet ot find Balin's camp, but they rooted around the marshes, and encountered two trolls so far. They dispatched them with suspicious ease though, and when going over the rules after the session, I noticed I had made two huge errors, about fatigue and the Sauron rune when players roll it (calling for monester called shot). Oh well, live and learn. I won't be making those mistakes again though.

Anyways, I got a couple of questions, if I may? Firstly about journeys, do you play the return home stage at all? I think it mentions somewhere in the rulebook (Fellowship phase?), that usually it is assumed returning home from adventures can be passed over, especially if the heroes take the Fellowship phase at a nearby location? But can be played if the LM so desires, of course? I am thinking of the Long Marshes here, returning back to lake-town with injured NPCs should be dangerous and maybe worth playing?

Then about Traits, I think it mentions you can swap existing ones to new ones, but can you gain additional ones at all? It might be hidden someplace I haven't looked so far.

Then about the Marsh-dwellers in the adventure, their MO seems to be that they lure people to them, they don't roam about the marshes? Would it be unlikely they follow the heroes in pursuit, if the get away? Maybe the following night? But probably not?

I will probably think up more questions as we go on, and will post them here.

[atgxtg]

Sure the LM can run the return journey. But be sure that you really want to. Since TOR is a story driven game chances are that the return journey isn't going to be all that interesting. For the most part the major opponents and obstacles will have been dealt with by the end of the adventure. So the return trip would be fairly anit-climatic.

Furthermore, what would there be to gain, story wise by running it? You really don't want to run the risk of a PC dying by misadventure when some supposedly minor encounter turns bad on you. Imagine if one of the Hobbits in Lord of the Rings got killed by Bill Fenry on the way back to the Shire. it would kinda ruin things.

That's why it's usually better to just gloss over the return trip. You've got plenty to loose and little to gain by it. That said, if the LM has some sort of story idea or something he wants to introduce or foreshadow on the return journey, that's fine. Just don't risk the characters for nothing.

[Stormcrow]

You can just hand-wave journeys that happen during the fellowship phase. It is assumed that nothing particularly dangerous happens on those journeys.

However, you shouldn't start a fellowship phase until the adventuring phase is properly over. If the party is in the middle of mewlip-infested marshes, the adventure is not over. Get to a safe place with access to other safe places, then start the fellowship phase.

[Stormcrow]

It's possible to gain new traits as a special reward or punishment by the Loremaster, but in general you only have the number you get when you create a character. Don't think of them as "powers" that need to be collected but as descriptors for your character. Too many and your character's description gets muddied.

[Butterfingers]

Thanks, that's more or less what I suspected. I thought the Marsh Bell is a little unusual adventure, since the journey is by boat mostly, and since the distance traveled is not great compared with some quests. Plus it's a rescue mission. So I thought maybe some kind of escape from the lair might be fun... pursued by hobgoblins or something if the marsh-dwellers are too shy?

I will see how hard it gets for the heroes and if they get off too easy, maybe then play the return trip and complicate things a bit?

As for traits, I realise that getting too many will become confusing, so I was just confirming they don't necessarily get more (the shadow flaws can be interesting though...)

[Stormcrow]

I thought the Marsh Bell is a little unusual adventure, since the journey is by boat mostly, and since the distance traveled is not great compared with some quests.

Because Tolkien's stories tend to involve long journeys, a lot of people seem to have this idea that every adventure must involve traveling hundreds of miles. But the lands in The One Ring are much more populated and hazard-filled than in Tolkien; you don't need to go far to encounter plenty of adventure, wherever you start.

"The Marsh-bell" is unusual, not because it involves a relatively short journey by boat, but because it goes out of its way to showcase lots of different rules. It's meant to be illustrative. Not everything that appears in "The Marsh-bell" occurs in every adventure. Not every adventure needs a fight and not every adventure needs a journey. Depending on how serious you think the Loremaster character has to be to have one, not every adventure needs an encounter. Don't try to shoehorn each of these in because they all appear in "The Marsh-bell."

[Majestic]

First of all, welcome, Butterfingers!

As others have said, it's perfectly okay to handwave return journeys. This was pretty much what was done on Bilbo's journey home in The Hobbit (the back again part).

Don't beat yourself up on those little things you missed; they're actually pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. There's been talk of how the Called Shot portion of the rules (when players get an Eye) can actually be a hindrance to NPCs, especially early on when it is tougher for them to hit their target.

I don't see the Mewlips as monsters that hunt down or chase those that flee from them. Later on (in the Darkening of Mirkwood) they appear closer to the Woodmen, but they're still more like shambling zombies.

[Stormcrow]

As others have said, it's perfectly okay to handwave return journeys. This was pretty much what was done on Bilbo's journey home in The Hobbit (the back again part).

Ironically, Tolkien had originally intended the "back again" part to be just as big an adventure as the "there" part, only the stories of Smaug and the Battle of Five Armies got so big they became the climax of the story.

[Butterfingers]

Oh yeah, one more question about journeys: based on a certain cheat sheet I found linked on this forum, it seems that you're supposed to roll all the fatigue checks for the entire journey (or a leg) at once, and only then the GM describes the journey and any hazards rolled, and applies the fatigue raises at the end of journey? Is that right?

My natural inclination would have been to roll each fatigue check at certain point of hexes traveled (e.g. every four days etc.), and then apply the hazard immediatly if sauron's eye is rolled with a failed fatigue check (travel roll)? And apply any fatigue accrued by that point? In fact that is how we've started the Marsh Bell adventure, especially as the heroes are searching for clues/tracking Balin so theyre doing more stuff than just traveling? Is there any practical difference either way?

[Rich H]

Oh yeah, one more question about journeys: based on a certain cheat sheet I found linked on this forum, it seems that you're supposed to roll all the fatigue checks for the entire journey (or a leg) at once, and only then the GM describes the journey and any hazards rolled, and applies the fatigue raises at the end of journey? Is that right?

That isn't the intent of the rules, so no.

My natural inclination would have been to roll each fatigue check at certain point of hexes traveled (e.g. every four days etc.), and then apply the hazard immediatly if sauron's eye is rolled with a failed fatigue check (travel roll)? And apply any fatigue accrued by that point? In fact that is how we've started the Marsh Bell adventure, especially as the heroes are searching for clues/tracking Balin so theyre doing more stuff than just traveling?

Yep, that's the common/correct way of doing it as it allows Hazards to be encountered as the journey progresses and fatigue to gradually accumulate. Doing it this way therefore allows for the players/PCs to respond, decide to do other things, make different decisions, etc.