An Unusual Dilemma - Can PCs Be Reformed Evildoers?

[MReader]

Hey, people!

I've been facing an unusual dilemma with a few of my TOR Players, but before I make a decision, I wanted to consult with the members of this forum regarding what I should do.

i have two players who want to play evil characters, but as TOR and Tolkien in general draw a very rigid line between good and evil, and as being evil in Middle-Earth means that you have to go the whole way, I think that I'll end up asking them to do one of three things:

1) Be former villains who tried out evil, and didn't like what they saw. This would require hiding their dark pasts from the rest of the Fellowship, kind of like Embla of Rhovanion, a favorite NPC of mine who might or might not end up helping the Fellowship (and more specifically, the former evildoer[s]) as a mentor figure.

2) Be villainous to begin with, but team up with the Fellowship later on to defeat a bigger threat, and then either join the good guys or move on to Option #3.

3) Join me (the Loremaster) and help me create bad guys for the hero to face (not all of which they can play, if I ever need to surprise the heroes).

So, do you guys have any other ideas for how to integrate them into the game? Help would be appreciated...

Thanks!

[Jez]

Oh definitely.

While the world is arguably absolute in its approach to good vs evil, there are plenty of good people who in fits of madness or fell moods do evil things. Boromir actions while under the spell of powerlust being the prime example. Thorin in his greedy hording of the Dragon's treasure. Both get the chance to atone for their foul actions later — though it seems they had to atone with their lives.

Faramir also implies it in his questioning about the Haradrim he killed, wondering what lies they were told that seduced them into the Dark Lord's service, pretty much stating that they were manipulated into serving the will of evil.

So I think it's perfectly fitting to have characters who are trying to atone for past misdeeds.

[DavetheLost]

Even Frodo ultimately failed. In the end he succumbed to the temptation of the Ring and claimed it for his own. I was Gollum who, in an act of ultimate redemption, plunged into the Crack of Doom holding the Ring.

Although The Lord of the Rings should not be read as allegory, which Tolkien despised, its morality is still deeply informed by Tolkien's Christianity.

Temptation and Redemption are important themes. I think that reformed Evildoers have great potential for characters in TOR.

If the desire is to play presently evil characters, I am not sure that fits TOR and Middle Earth nearly so well. This game is about Heroes, not angsty anti-heroes or twisted murder hobos. The game has very good mechanics for Shadow, Corruption, Madness and Despair. An evil character would be purposefully subjecting themselves to this...

I have to ask also, what is the attraction or reason for wanting to play an evil character in TOR? Middle Earth is not a setting where Evil prospers. And evil characters will sooner or later attract the attention of the Enemy... Do your players want to be sear ants of Sauron? In Middle Earth free will does not exist for the servants of the Shadow. There are other games better suited to evil characters who are actively evil.

[Otaku-sempai]

EDIT: I was having problems posting yesterday and my post ended up duplicated. Disregard.

[Tolwen]

If the desire is to play presently evil characters, I am not sure that fits TOR and Middle Earth nearly so well. This game is about Heroes, not angsty anti-heroes or twisted murder hobos.

I fully agree with the game as written has a focus on the do-gooders , but even Middle-earth has much more shades of gray than the story arcs of the Hobbit and LotR suggest at first glance. It is written as the memoirs of two Hobbits and - like all memoirs - there is a certain bias in it.

In Middle Earth free will does not exist for the servants of the Shadow. There are other games better suited to evil characters who are actively evil.

Every single individual among the Children of Ilúvatar has free will - that is the basis upon which their very existence is based. The question is whether they have the guts to exercise it in the face of superior power. Or they might be OK with the evil, as long as they profit from it or hold a position of power themselves. The Haradrim that Sam reflects about might be coerced into service or being lied to. But he may also have served on his own free will, either because he is just following the orders of his lord/superior or he is hired as a mercenary who does his job as long he is paid his money.

With a closer look Middle-earth is not nearly as clearly divided among only black and white as the first impression suggests. The hints and evidence for more ambiguous motives and actions (even among the supposed "good" Free Peoples) are only better hidden among the - more stressed - text about noble deeds against a vastly superior Evil which make far better memoirs in any case

Cheers
Tolwen

[Otaku-sempai]

I like the idea of a beginning Adventurer who has started out on the wrong path, but is trying to change. Perhaps such a PC should begin with one or more Shadow Points as one who has committed a misdeed.

[Elmoth]

I like the idea of a beginning Adventurer who has started out on the wrong path, but is trying to change. Perhaps such a PC should begin with one or more Shadow Points as one who has committed a misdeed.

That is how I would model it. I can easily see a character getting 1 shadow point and 1 additional Valor point as well. Using this he might start with 2 rewards, yep, but he will be more prone to be taken down by mental breakdowns as well, and he will not be THAT more advanced than the other PCs.

Cheers,
Xavi

[Yusei]

In my opinion, an additional Valor point is worth at least 3 shadow points. However, it is not very satisfying to reward bad deeds with Valor. Wisdom would suit more, if the character is already reformed at the beginning of the adventure.

[Rich H]

... I think people should clarify what they mean when they are stating Shadow Point amounts - are you all talking about the same type; Temporary or Permanent? It appears that you aren't.

[Elmoth]

I meant a permanent one. One is not a fellon with it taking a hold on your soul. In ME at least.