So... do Special Abilities stack?

[PaulButler]

I'm talking about the Special Abilities of Adversaries here.
Let's say Denizen of the Dark and Horrible Strength. When doubling the attribute bonus for Denizen, does that mean that the bonus for Horrible Strength is doubled too? The text would seem to indicate as much.

For example, the Hobgoblin, from the Lake-Town book, has both Denizen of the Dark as well as Horrible Strength, not to mention his Orc-Axe skill is favored.
So conceivably, at night time, a simple success could cause an astounding amount of damage:
5pts (basic axe damage) plus
4+4 pts (attribute bonus for favored axe, doubled for Denizen of the Dark) plus
4+4 pts (attribute bonus for Horrible Strength, again doubled for Denizen of the Dark)
= 21 points of damage for a simple success and a point of Hate to invoke Horrible Strength. That's impressive.

Never mind a great success with Horrible Strength expenditure (a total of 29 points) or an extraordinary success (total of 37 points). This guy is a beast!
Is this how folks run it? It's certainly how I do, and indeed, I recently used a single Hobgoblin in a cave as the main villain to overcome at the end of a recent adventure with new characters. They barely survived. (In fact, one of them did not.)
Thoughts?

[doctheweasel]

The attribute bonus for favored weapon skills are not added to damage, just the to-hit roll.
(Of course, it's added on a good or extraordinary success, so there's that)

Also, Denizen of the Dark only doubles the attribute bonus "as far as rolls are concerned," so it doesn't apply to damage.

So Hobgoblins are going to roll to-hit with +8, but will only gain +4 to damage for Horrible Strength and great and extraordinary success results.

[PaulButler]

The attribute bonus for favored weapon skills are not added to damage, just the to-hit roll.
(Of course, it's added on a good or extraordinary success, so there's that)

You are of course, correct. That's what I get for posting from memory without my books nearby.

[PaulButler]

So, got my books in front of me.
Now that I'm reading it again, an interesting question is raised. Does an adversary's attribute level add double the damage on an extraordinary success? The text reads "..and as a damage bonus to be applied when a creature hits an opponent in combat roll a great or extraordinary success." That would suggest that no, it is not doubled for an extraordinary success, and it's a single flat bonus for either improved success level.
But this seems a bit odd. This would suggest that (baring other special abilities) there is no difference between great and extraordinary for an adversary, and clearly gives an advantage to our heroes.

As for my original post, my question still stands regarding stacking. (My first example was now, obviously, flawed.) But let's say you've got a critter with Horrible Strength and Savage Assault. It hits with a great success. Can it trigger both Horrible Strength and then, for another point of Hate, trigger Savage Assault? For that matter, if the secondary attack was successful could it then spend a third point of Hate to trigger Horrible Strength again?
I realize if must seem that I am terribly cruel to my players (what can I say, I like scary Orcs) but I'm not really. So while I wouldn't do these sorts of shenanigans as a matter of course, sometimes an important enemy leader is on his last legs, but still has a reserve of Hate points. Shouldn't he go out in a dramatic blaze of glory?
I tried to find a rule that indicates on point of Hate spend per round or something but couldn't find it.

[Marko]

So, got my books in front of me.
Now that I'm reading it again, an interesting question is raised. Does an adversary's attribute level add double the damage on an extraordinary success? The text reads "..and as a damage bonus to be applied when a creature hits an opponent in combat roll a great or extraordinary success." That would suggest that no, it is not doubled for an extraordinary success, and it's a single flat bonus for either improved success level.
But this seems a bit odd. This would suggest that (baring other special abilities) there is no difference between great and extraordinary for an adversary, and clearly gives an advantage to our heroes.

As I read the rules for adversaries, they just state that the Attribute bonus is used as basis when using the rules for great and extraordinaries success.

It is used [...] as a Damage bonus to be applied when the creature hits an opponent in combat rolling a great or extraordinar y success.

I read that as “use the enemies Attribute bonus as Damage rating and treat it like the hero’s damage rating.”

[Rich H]

Now that I'm reading it again, an interesting question is raised. Does an adversary's attribute level add double the damage on an extraordinary success? The text reads "..and as a damage bonus to be applied when a creature hits an opponent in combat roll a great or extraordinary success." That would suggest that no, it is not doubled for an extraordinary success, and it's a single flat bonus for either improved success level.
But this seems a bit odd. This would suggest that (baring other special abilities) there is no difference between great and extraordinary for an adversary, and clearly gives an advantage to our heroes.

I think it could be interpreted either way and I'm not sure whether Francesco has ever clarified. Personally, I adopt the same rules as those for PCs when applying damage (x2) for great (extraordinary) successes.

let's say you've got a critter with Horrible Strength and Savage Assault. It hits with a great success. Can it trigger both Horrible Strength and then, for another point of Hate, trigger Savage Assault?

Yes, that's fine.

For that matter, if the secondary attack was successful could it then spend a third point of Hate to trigger Horrible Strength again?

Yes, I'd say so.

I realize if must seem that I am terribly cruel to my players (what can I say, I like scary Orcs) but I'm not really. So while I wouldn't do these sorts of shenanigans as a matter of course, sometimes an important enemy leader is on his last legs, but still has a reserve of Hate points. Shouldn't he go out in a dramatic blaze of glory?I tried to find a rule that indicates on point of Hate spend per round or something but couldn't find it.

I don't think that's a problem; these adversaries are designed to be dangerous and to be used to their full potential.

There's no limit on the amount of Hate a creature can spend in one round of combat.

[Valarian]

If they run out of Hate, the adversary becomes weary. Then it's in the same boat as a weary player character, with rolls of 1 to 3 on the d6 becoming zero.

[Rich H]

If they run out of Hate, the adversary becomes weary. Then it's in the same boat as a weary player character, with rolls of 1 to 3 on the d6 becoming zero.

What's the significance in that to the question about using multiple abilities in one round? Creatures can use even their last point of Hate to activate an ability.

[Stormcrow]

The text reads "..and as a damage bonus to be applied when a creature hits an opponent in combat roll a great or extraordinary success." That would suggest that no, it is not doubled for an extraordinary success, and it's a single flat bonus for either improved success level.

A doubled damage bonus is still a damage bonus. I think the text means to add a damage bonus in the same way that player-characters add damage bonuses; it was being brief on the assumption that you already know how to apply damage bonuses for extra successes.

[PaulButler]

... it was being brief on the assumption that you already know how to apply damage bonuses for extra successes.

Yeah, that was pretty much my original take on it.