Tips for fighting Tyulquin (DoM spoilers)?

[Dunkelbrink]

Hello there fellow Loremasters!

Coming up in my campaign is the adventure The Lost Path and dread Tyulquin. It is a cool encounter and a very characterful adversary, so I want the (potential) fight to be something to remember. I like Tyulquin's abilities in DoM/HotW, but some of the seem a bit hard to use. For those of you who have run the adventure, how did the fight turn out? Or maybe Farenthal has a few ideas or hints, since Tyulquin appears in "First seed of a great forest" as well. I guess at least on or two of the play testing groups tried to attack her?

The abilities that bother me the most are Webs of Illusion and Many Poisons. With Web of Illusion she can claim initiative (since the heroes are surprised). but I guess that this is only useful in a "Normal encounter". For example in The Lost path, where the whole thing is about illusion, I guess the encounter is on when the heroes see through the illusion and it is then too late for a web of illusion (the adventure states that it takes 6 rounds for Tyulquin to reach the company; this is probably way too long when facing a group with archers): But then the adventure suggests that Tyulquin could throw a web of illusion over an archer, and I wonder: to what effect? Since that ability concerns ambush I see no way of using it as an attack (according to RAW or the adventure).

The Many poisons are cool, but will never see the light of day if using RAW, where an adversary only uses Called shots when a hero rolls an Eye. A variant I'm thinking of for this fight is to have each successful attack meaning an additional poison effect with a Protection roll to save from it. If failed one of the poisons (1-6 on a success die) kicks in. The last for (1-6) days. Since these poisons are fun but less lethal it would not be unfair to let Tyulquin get to use use some of them.

So, any memories of fighting Tyulquin or comments on these possible variants are welcome!

[Indur Dawndeath]

I played that scene not long ago, and the web of illusion was wery fun. Basically I just decided what the players thought they saw, but in reality Tuylqin was just sneaking in on them for an ambush.
To make Tuylqin more dangerous and to use the Many Poisons, I decided that called shots were available every round.
It was almost a TPK and many players were poisoned for a few days after the fight.
Tuylquin escaped after being wounded, which were perfect...

[bluejay]

Just as a quick aside (and I'm double checking with Francesco) but I'm pretty sure adversaries can use Called Shots whenever they want. The situation where a PC misses and rolls an EYE just enforces a Called Shot but they are free to use them as normal.

[bluejay]

Just checked with Francesco and he confirmed this. Adversaries can use Called Shots whenever they wish.

[Halbarad]

That's interesting Bluejay. I've obviously missed something along the way. I presume then, that if an Adversary uses a Called Shot of their volition(rather than as the result of an Eye roll in combat), the Adversary needs to roll at least one Tengwar for the Called Shot to be effective and that the attack completely misses if they don't.

[Dunkelbrink]

Hmm, that's very interesting and nothing that has been confirmed before. Makes me wonder a bit about the rules of rolling an Eye in combat, since rolling an Eye should have some bad affect for the hero. If the adversary can use Called shots at will anyway the effect is nil. Or even a "good" effect since the LM/adversary might not want to use a called shot.

One solution would be, as suggested in this forum earlier, that a Called shot after an Eye does not require any Tengwars, only a normal hit. In that way the hero would be in a worse position after rolling an Eye.

But lets not derail too much from the topic in the thread, and thanks for the input Indur!

[Rich H]

Just as a quick aside (and I'm double checking with Francesco) but I'm pretty sure adversaries can use Called Shots whenever they want. The situation where a PC misses and rolls an EYE just enforces a Called Shot but they are free to use them as normal.

Just checked with Francesco and he confirmed this. Adversaries can use Called Shots whenever they wish.

That's... really odd.

Hmm, that's very interesting and nothing that has been confirmed before. Makes me wonder a bit about the rules of rolling an Eye in combat, since rolling an Eye should have some bad affect for the hero. If the adversary can use Called shots at will anyway the effect is nill. Or even a "good" effect since he LM/adversary might not want to use a called shot.

Yes, exactly.

It's why I house rule Called Shots in my game for Adversaries that if a great+ success is not obtained but the attack would have still hit normally then it does. It avoids the, "rolling EYEs are great most of the time as opponents don't get t+ successes and even if they do sometimes their CS result isn't applicable to me (eg, break shield)".

I don't get the Adversaries may choose to take a CS at anytime as well as players rolling an EYE. It doesn't make any real sense to me.

[SpottedBill]

Just checked with Francesco and he confirmed this. Adversaries can use Called Shots whenever they wish.

Oh, this is really interesting. Would it be possible to get some more clarification on the subject from Francesco?

As others noted: What is the point of the Called Shot following a player rolling a Sauron? Does the following Called Shot still require a Great Success?

[Earendil]

It's why I house rule Called Shots in my game for Adversaries that if a great+ success is not obtained but the attack would have still hit normally then it does. It avoids the, "rolling EYEs are great most of the time as opponents don't get t+ successes and even if they do sometimes their CS result isn't applicable to me (eg, break shield)".

Yes, I use the same house rule.

I don't get the Adversaries may choose to take a CS at anytime as well as players rolling an EYE. It doesn't make any real sense to me.

No, it doesn't seem to make sense as written...

In and of itself, I'm very happy to allow adversaries to attempt Called Shots whenever they like, as it will mean they get to use their special abilities more often (as in this case with Tyulquin).

What I might do is keep that house rule that Rich mentioned above for Called Shots caused by Eyes, but use the normal Called Shot rules if the adversary chooses to make one. That way Eyes still make things more dangerous.

[Rich H]

In and of itself, I'm very happy to allow adversaries to attempt Called Shots whenever they like, as it will mean they get to use their special abilities more often (as in this case with Tyulquin).

What I might do is keep that house rule that Rich mentioned above for Called Shots caused by Eyes, but use the normal Called Shot rules if the adversary chooses to make one. That way Eyes still make things more dangerous.

Yep, that's the way I'd go. I feel there's a need to make Called Shots resulting from rolling an EYE worse (ie, easier to happen) than a choice made by the LM/Adversary.